[Misc] F1 2021

[zefarelly]

Looking forward to Brazil, Interlagos is a great racers circuit. The beach buggy race zone thereafter can do one.

 

[Audax]

Bottas showed why he's being binned off.

Bottas in turn 1 - a brilliant little exemplar of why he's never been, and never will be, one of the greats. He's a very fast driver (on his day, one of the fastest). But he lacks that extra aggression / bravery in tight quarters that picks out the true greats.

So while yes, it was absolutely Ricciardo's responsibility to avoid tagging him and spinning him around ... Bottas was only in a position to get tagged by Ricciardo because of how he approached turn 1. From the moment he was the first to blink entering the braking zone, to when he decided the best thing to do was carry slower apex speed so he could tuck in tight to the apex behind Hamilton, he was doomed.

If it had been Verstappen, Hamilton, Ricciardo, Russell, Norris, Gasly, Leclerc (I could go on...) sitting in Bottas' car entering the T1 braking zone, none of those drivers would have been where Bottas was once they got to the apex. All of them would have braked a little later, stayed a little wider of apex, and made absolutely sure that the car on the outside had to really, really work for the pass. Possibly even made sure the car on the outside had a choice between backing out or doing some lawn mowing.

For Bottas, that would have been beneficial (compared to what he actually did) in multiple ways:

1. Potential to allow Hamilton to be in a position to take the lead through T2 / T3,

2. Not be in Ricciardo's path on the apex of T1,

3. Be in a position to block Perez. Potentially even seeing Perez get stuck behind a hard-to-pass Ricciardo and/or Gasly instead of being into a clear P3,

4. Bag Mercedes a much bigger haul of points to help protect their WCC lead even if (when - I think even if Hamilton had been in front at the end of lap 1, Max was still going to win it) Max still beat Hamilton.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Bottas in turn 1 - a brilliant little exemplar of why he's never been, and never will be, one of the greats. He's a very fast driver (on his day, one of the fastest). But he lacks that extra aggression / bravery in tight quarters that picks out the true greats.

So while yes, it was absolutely Ricciardo's responsibility to avoid tagging him and spinning him around ... Bottas was only in a position to get tagged by Ricciardo because of how he approached turn 1. From the moment he was the first to blink entering the braking zone, to when he decided the best thing to do was carry slower apex speed so he could tuck in tight to the apex behind Hamilton, he was doomed.

If it had been Verstappen, Hamilton, Ricciardo, Russell, Norris, Gasly, Leclerc (I could go on...) sitting in Bottas' car entering the T1 braking zone, none of those drivers would have been where Bottas was once they got to the apex. All of them would have braked a little later, stayed a little wider of apex, and made absolutely sure that the car on the outside had to really, really work for the pass. Possibly even made sure the car on the outside had a choice between backing out or doing some lawn mowing.

For Bottas, that would have been beneficial (compared to what he actually did) in multiple ways:

1. Potential to allow Hamilton to be in a position to take the lead through T2 / T3,

2. Not be in Ricciardo's path on the apex of T1,

3. Be in a position to block Perez. Potentially even seeing Perez get stuck behind a hard-to-pass Ricciardo and/or Gasly instead of being into a clear P3,

4. Bag Mercedes a much bigger haul of points to help protect their WCC lead even if Max still beat Hamilton.

Where I felt a bit sorry for Bottas was that if he'd gone into that corner, balls out, late breaking he may well have cleaned Hamilton out in the process on cold brakes. They were clearly trying some sort of side by side team maneover to stop the toe from behind. This did fail miserably but is highly unlikely many teams could have made it work in the unfavourable circumstances. Arguably, if he steams off into the distance it would have been Hamilton getting tagged in T1. There was no doubting that Bottas was playing the team game at the time - which I can't see Russell being massively up for next year - and in doing so got the rough end of the deal.

More to the point, I was looking forward to a close run in but it seems Red Bull are a few pounds clear now. Unless Max loses his head, they are home and hosed.

 

[schmunk]

They were clearly trying some sort of side by side team maneover to stop the toe from behind.

Bottas definitely received a toe from behind...

 

[Bold Seagull]

Where I felt a bit sorry for Bottas was that if he'd gone into that corner, balls out, late breaking he may well have cleaned Hamilton out in the process on cold brakes. They were clearly trying some sort of side by side team maneover to stop the toe from behind. This did fail miserably but is highly unlikely many teams could have made it work in the unfavourable circumstances. Arguably, if he steams off into the distance it would have been Hamilton getting tagged in T1. There was no doubting that Bottas was playing the team game at the time - which I can't see Russell being massively up for next year - and in doing so got the rough end of the deal.

More to the point, I was looking forward to a close run in but it seems Red Bull are a few pounds clear now. Unless Max loses his head, they are home and hosed.

I think what they were trying / planning to do is for Hamilton to tuck in behind Bottas so Hamilton gets his own tow, negating the tow Verstappen gets, then let Hamilton have that extra pace into turn 1. Problem was Bottas got such a shit start on the grippier side, that Lewis's start meant he pulled up along side, and Verstappen was at Bottas's rear almost immediately, so Plan A was in the bin within half a second. I don't think the 2 Mercs side by side would ever have been a plan. All Bottas needed to do was cover the outside, Hamilton could then have left a metre or so between them and Verstappen's only option would have been a mad lunge on the inside on the much less grippy surface on a tighter line.

I mean, if your Bottas, you've been ditched by the team, you may not feel you've ever been given enough support to properly challenge Lewis, and you're thinking **** it, why should I help. It must be pretty crushing for him, he would have felt he could challenge Hamilton when he joined, but go nowhere near him and now his career is only going one way...

 

[Audax]

Where I felt a bit sorry for Bottas was that if he'd gone into that corner, balls out, late breaking he may well have cleaned Hamilton out in the process on cold brakes. They were clearly trying some sort of side by side team maneover to stop the toe from behind. This did fail miserably but is highly unlikely many teams could have made it work in the unfavourable circumstances. Arguably, if he steams off into the distance it would have been Hamilton getting tagged in T1. There was no doubting that Bottas was playing the team game at the time - which I can't see Russell being massively up for next year - and in doing so got the rough end of the deal.

More to the point, I was looking forward to a close run in but it seems Red Bull are a few pounds clear now. Unless Max loses his head, they are home and hosed.

Nah, Hamilton was clean through T1 without any issue. What I'm talking about for Bottas is subtle positioning:

1. Brake a little later, so instead of coming to the apex fully behind Hamilton, he's instead still a half-car overlapped.

2. Then, stay wide on the outside of Hamilton.

3. Verstappen then has a choice - go even wider than he did and risk going off, take the same line he did and risk getting turned around by Bottas, or back out of it.

4. That leaves Ricciardo all the room he needed to get to the T1 apex without clipping the back of Bottas. The clip Ricciardo gave Bottas was tiny in F1 terms, it really didn't need much change from Bottas for a very different set of results.

IMO, the way Bottas swept into the apex was always a low percentage option from where he was. There's usually a car braking late squeezed tight to the inside at T1 on circuits with such a long run to T1. Unless you know you're clear, it's always better (if you have the option) to hang a little wider, especially if the next turn is the opposite direction as it gives you the line into that corner as well. Especially from Bottas's entry point - instead of taking a constant radius around the corner from where he turned in, he tightened the radius looking to fall in behind Hamilton and have a wider entry line for T2. I just don't understand how that was ever going to be the best option available to him at the time. Too many risks from behind that could easily have been reduce by going constant radius.

 

[Nitram]

Can’t see whatever Bottas did yesterday it would changed the outcome. The Red bulls would have had the benefit of the undercut if behind and anyway I don’t think Bottas would have had the pace to keep Max behind for Lewis to build a meaningful lead. The Red Bulls were just too fast on the day.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Can’t see whatever Bottas did yesterday it would changed the outcome. The Red bulls would have had the benefit of the undercut if behind and anyway I don’t think Bottas would have had the pace to keep Max behind for Lewis to build a meaningful lead. The Red Bulls were just too fast on the day.

However, on much fresher tyres, with 11 laps remaining Perez couldn’t even get in position to try to make a pass let alone make one. Hamilton couldn’t get close to a lapped Norris till they blue flagged him. If Hamilton led them I expect RB would have had to have tried a ridiculously early stop to achieve the undercut as Mercedes would have stopped Hamilton early if they led.

 

[Nitram]

However, on much fresher tyres, with 11 laps remaining Perez couldn’t even get in position to try to make a pass let alone make one. Hamilton couldn’t get close to a lapped Norris till they blue flagged him. If Hamilton led them I expect RB would have had to have tried a ridiculously early stop to achieve the undercut as Mercedes would have stopped Hamilton early if they led.

Perez v Hamilton and Max v Hamilton would have been a totally different game. I really don’t see what Mercedes could have done Red Bull were so much faster. Max and Lewis are on a different level to their teammates.

 

[Audax]

Can’t see whatever Bottas did yesterday it would changed the outcome. The Red bulls would have had the benefit of the undercut if behind and anyway I don’t think Bottas would have had the pace to keep Max behind for Lewis to build a meaningful lead. The Red Bulls were just too fast on the day.

For Max and Lewis, yep absolutely - I see the same result regardless. Max was just too quick. However, if Bottas avoids being turned around in the 1st corner it makes a *big* difference for Mercedes in terms of the WCC if he then finishes 3rd or 4th. On the other hand, it may also have meant they wouldn't have been in a position to pit Bottas twice to take the fastest lap point away from Max.

 

[Marty___Mcfly]

Hamilton under investigation for DRS wing illegality. Wouldn’t Bottas have the same design?

Verstappen under investigation for investigating / touching Hamilton’s wing in parc ferme.

Have also seen footage online of Verstappen’s rear wing wobbling back and forth in Q3 and they did have issues with their wing’s legality earlier in the season which resulted in the FIA tightening up the regs.

Result of investigations to be announced today, so potential punishment of being sent to the back of the grid for the Sprint this evening.

Wing-gate!

 

[Icy Gull]

Hamilton under investigation for DRS wing illegality. Wouldn’t Bottas have the same design?

Verstappen under investigation for investigating / touching Hamilton’s wing in parc ferme.

Have also seen footage online of Verstappen’s rear wing wobbling back and forth in Q3 and they did have issues with their wing’s legality earlier in the season which resulted in the FIA tightening up the regs.

Result of investigations to be announced today, so potential punishment of being sent to the back of the grid for the Sprint this evening.

Wing-gate!

For the good of the Championship, rather than as a Lewis fan, I hope he avoids a penalty, a five place grid drop will make it tough enough for him to get anywhere near Max in the race. Going to the back of the grid in the actual race will probably mean the end of this season and a competitive exciting finish will have no chance of happening.

 

[Marty___Mcfly]

Apparently the penalty for Hamilton would be applied in the Sprint, not the race on Sunday. So I guess he could make up places in the Sprint.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Apparently the penalty for Hamilton would be applied in the Sprint, not the race on Sunday. So I guess he could make up places in the Sprint.

It would be applied to the sprint - starting from the back!! Even if he made up 5 places, he’d still be at the back come the race. If his wing doesn’t comply it’s Max’s title, job done.

 

[Marty___Mcfly]

Would imagine he could make up more than 5 places in the sprint.

Even without the engine penalty / wing penalty Hamilton probably needed something like a DNF from Verstappen in the last 4 races to stand a chance of winning the championship.

That could still happen- it ain’t over till it’s over! [emoji2]

 

[zefarelly]

As punishment, both of them to race with no wings, no panty pads either

 

[Hugo Rune]

As punishment, both of them to race with no wings, no panty pads either

I still don’t get why Verstappen is in trouble for tamponing with Lewis’ car. He hardly touched it!

 

[Marty___Mcfly]

Cars can’t be touched in park ferme? [emoji2369]

Seems like overkill tho- see footage online of Vettel doing it in the past. He got no punishment.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Would imagine he could make up more than 5 places in the sprint.

Even without the engine penalty / wing penalty Hamilton probably needed something like a DNF from Verstappen in the last 4 races to stand a chance of winning the championship.

That could still happen- it ain’t over till it’s over! [emoji2]

You could always use that happy team player Bottas to punt him off at turn 1......

 

[blockhseagull]

I still don’t get why Verstappen is in trouble for tamponing with Lewis’ car. He hardly touched it!

But he did touch it !! And he isn’t allowed to

Proves yet again what a brainless moron he is ….. ahead in the championship, been the better driver this year but can’t just use his head.

He won’t get a punishment, it’s only the ‘sporting’ rules he broke, but it could mean Hamilton now escapes penalty because he touched his car.