[News] Hs2 update.

[Sid and the Sharknados]

This will open the door for those projects, it does seem like a behemoth at the moment, but the benefits will be huge once completed.

In what, 60 years time?
I don't doubt there's a lot of benefits to HS2 when viewed as a whole, I do struggle to accept that the time and money couldn't be better spent on other work.
I'm going to leave this thread be at this point, because otherwise I might end up breaching the whatchamacallit that I definitely haven't signed up to.

 

[jackalbion]

In what, 60 years time?
I don't doubt there's a lot of benefits to HS2 when viewed as a whole, I do struggle to accept that the time and money couldn't be better spent on other work.
I'm going to leave this thread be at this point, because otherwise I might end up breaching the whatchamacallit that I definitely haven't signed up to.

I agree money could be spent elsewhere, but why not both? I think thats what a lot of people fail to see, it always seems to be an argument, the railways need better investment as a whole, and this project is one of many that will be necessary in the future.

 

[Wardy's twin]

why can't we do all? The type of morons who argue we should scrap HS2 are typically the same plebs who used to argue how we should have cancelled the olympics while we were building the stadium because the cost was increasing and the country couldn't afford it

If you listen to people in politics or the media who keep saying we should scrap, cut back, freeze pay, get rid of this or that (lets be honest - a typically Tory mantra), but they are doing alright for themselves (thank you very much) then you've been had

Why can't we do all ? well a little thing called money and having a vast debt and that we can't fund a proper NHS are a few simple reasons.

The questions are

a) what was the purpose of HS2 beyond saving 20 mins on a train journey to Birmingham ( pretty sure that was one of the media highlights) and that should b expressed in some tangible numbers
b) now costs are spiralling does it still deliver the return on investment (especially as part has been cancelled)
c) are there better projects that would deliver more

Clearly some comment that it will increase rail capacity between London & Birmingham (by how much and is it needed), but what's the point of getting to Birmingham fast if your onward journey east or west is still either poor or non existent. let's forget how poor most rail links are.

but I guess I am just a moronic pleb (who doesn't vote Tory)

P.S. we are destroying a lot of the environment for this ....

 

[Wardy's twin]

This will open the door for those projects, it does seem like a behemoth at the moment, but the benefits will be huge once completed.

Can you quantify those benefits in real terms as opposed to aspirational ideas.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

HS2 maybe someone's good idea in a wet dream they've had.
But when you see the mess and carnage it's created up here, you'd think twice.
What was once fine views of countryside is now mud piles for miles

The countryside is devastated around here. We used to have a lovely wooded cycleway between 2 small towns. Half of that is now a building site. I'll drop a photo later if I get a chance, it is quite unrecognisable from what it used to be.

 

[Wardy's twin]

It frees up masses of capacity on the overcrowded WCML allowing better inter-town / inter-city rail travel along that corridor plus clears space for a lot more freight traffic which takes thousands of lorries off the road every year, as well as alleviating some fo the biggest bottlenecks on the UK rail network.

It's absolutely nothing to do with "shaving 20 minutes off a journey to London". That's akin to saying building the Amex was only done so we could have a heated pitch.

We used to use the railways for freight but it became more convenient to use big lorries as they could take stuff directly where needed rather than double handling from freight depot Loss of freight traffic has made rail less commercially viable. It is a great idea to get freight off the road but how do you make that happen - increase road tax on lorries i.e. compele freight to use it and what then happens to the freight companies? I guess it solves the loss of HGV drivers post BREXIT.

 

[jackalbion]

Can you quantify those benefits in real terms as opposed to aspirational ideas.

Yes it increases rail capacity massively, it will reduce rail headways on existing routes. Fast trains require a bigger gap between trains, so if they are placed on separate lines these can be reduced. More stopping trains can be placed on the WCML, and capacity will be increased at Birmingham New Street. You can fit a lot more trains on East/West routes out of Birmingham New Street, but you can't fit them into the throat of New Street station. With London services moved over the HS2, it means that platform space and paths through new street will be available, which can be used for Cross Country services, such as those from Nottingham to Cardiff. It also means more ability to put services that stop at en route locations such as Nuneaton, Litchfield, Milton Keynes and Stafford. Due to the time it takes to slow a train and stop it on the main line, it means that these stations are sacrificed to keep up with demand for the final destinations such as Liverpool and Manchester. For example the old Brighton to Manchester Piccadilly service that ran until 2006 (which would be very useful now) was cut as capacity on the WCML was low and services to major destinations were favoured. The speed is irrelevant, yes it is destroying the environment in its path, but if the full plan was implemented it would have reduced air miles and potential car journeys. It could also in theory bring prices down as there would be two routes which would be in competition.

 

[A1X]

We used to use the railways for freight but it became more convenient to use big lorries as they could take stuff directly where needed rather than double handling from freight depot Loss of freight traffic has made rail less commercially viable. It is a great idea to get freight off the road but how do you make that happen - increase road tax on lorries i.e. compele freight to use it and what then happens to the freight companies? I guess it solves the loss of HGV drivers post BREXIT.

Environmental concerns will play a big part of it. Several major UK companies have switched from road to rail for part of the journey for that very reason (Tesco in particular).