[Albion] Decision Making - Coaching

[Paulie Gualtieri]

You don't have to get to the goal line to put in a decent cross. There are countless times every match when a player gets to - let's call it point X - where the whole crowd is thinking 'hit it now, quickly' .......... and they don't - they stop, turn around and pass it back or sideways. Lamptey, March and Cucurella seem the worst, but certainly not the only, offenders. They don't always need to pick out a player - just put it into the goal keeper's corridor of uncertainty.
If they do this more often, attack minded midfielders like Moder, Mac and Mwepu are more likely to go flying in there.

I know, I'm not a player, even less a manager, so I know nothing. Perhaps they've been told to do that, but it's so frustrating seeing players just deciding not to ping in a cross, but turn back and give the opposition time to set up their defences.

See Eriksens cross yesterday, delightful.

Although wouldn’t work for us as we don’t exactly pack the box when we break, maybe that’s why we win so many corners from our crosses, simply as there is no target available at the time

 

[BadFish]

The only team to cross the ball more often than Brighton this season is Liverpool.

This is surprising to me so I have had a look to see where you got this stat from. I have only found a site that puts us 4th for number of crosses. This is still very surprising. Could you post a link to where you got this stat so I can investigate as it doesn't tally with the games I watching.

Sent from my M2010J19CG using Tapatalk

 

[Seagull58]

You don't have to get to the goal line to put in a decent cross. There are countless times every match when a player gets to - let's call it point X - where the whole crowd is thinking 'hit it now, quickly' .......... and they don't - they stop, turn around and pass it back or sideways. Lamptey, March and Cucurella seem the worst, but certainly not the only, offenders. They don't always need to pick out a player - just put it into the goal keeper's corridor of uncertainty.
If they do this more often, attack minded midfielders like Moder, Mac and Mwepu are more likely to go flying in there.

I know, I'm not a player, even less a manager, so I know nothing. Perhaps they've been told to do that, but it's so frustrating seeing players just deciding not to ping in a cross, but turn back and give the opposition time to set up their defences.

I didn't say you do. Gross and Lamptey both hit good crosses as i described but we don't have players with the right skillset challenging for them, except for Welbeck. As I said, the crosses should be hit flat behind the defensive line but we rarely have anyone getting into that space.

 

[GT49er]

This is surprising to me so I have had a look to see where you got this stat from. I have only found a site that puts us 4th for number of crosses. This is still very surprising. Could you post a link to where you got this stat so I can investigate as it doesn't tally with the games I watching.

I don't think it tallies with what anybody is watching (outside Sweden), does it?

 

[Swansman]

This is surprising to me so I have had a look to see where you got this stat from. I have only found a site that puts us 4th for number of crosses. This is still very surprising. Could you post a link to where you got this stat so I can investigate as it doesn't tally with the games I watching.

Sent from my M2010J19CG using Tapatalk

fbref.com somewhere, and it was before the Liverpool game so it is possible the team dropped a position or two. 2nd and 4th, point remains, the team does a lot of crossing and its not a good thing. Crossing is usually not particularly efficient and is a sign that you are facing a collected defense and cant get through them.

 

[usernamed]

Haven’t read the whole thread, so apologies if re-covering ground, but if it has turned out to be true that Bruno is on attacking coaching duties, and that we don’t in fact have a formerly prolific attacker as a coach, then how do we expect to improve?

Shirley we need someone within the coaching setup who has actually been able to bang them in when it counts, to coach the required mentality/attitude/approach into our current players?

I can’t help but feel that our current approach has the whiff of the underpants gnomes about it?

1. Pass ball steadily into the opposition half retaining possession.
2. ?
3. Victory.

I don’t feel like it matters who we bring in atm, I suspect we will coach the goals out of them.

 

[Stato]

Robyn Cowen on The Guardian's Football Weekly is the latest to helpfully diagnose our problem. "They just need to be more clinical. They don't have a striker who'll give you a guaranteed double figures every season." That's that solved then. All we need to do is choose one from the list of those that have done that in each of the last three seasons:

That's Salah, Mane, Son, Kane, Vardy, or Sterling. Which one do we sign then? I've never posted a poll?

I don't particularly want to single out Cowen, but I could scream at the constant repetition of this specious garbage by so many being paid to comment on football. The constant talk of a 20 a goal season player just goes on and on, with nobody ever pointing out that they are a rare exception. The fallacious consensus never gets questioned even though a cursory glance at stats show that it is based on myth. The top six have 20 goal a season players. Everyone else gets by on decent enough strikers who will score some and miss some. That doesn't explain why the other teams who don't have one seem to score more goals than we do. The all round belief in this lie seems to prevent any proper analysis of where we are actually going wrong.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Robyn Cowen on The Guardian's Football Weekly is the latest to helpfully diagnose our problem. "They just need to be more clinical. They don't have a striker who'll give you a guaranteed double figures every season." That's that solved then. All we need to do is choose one from the list of those that have done that in each of the last three seasons:

That's Salah, Mane, Son, Kane, Vardy, or Sterling. Which one do we sign then? I've never posted a poll?

I don't particularly want to single out Cowen, but I could scream at the constant repetition of this specious garbage by so many being paid to comment on football. The constant talk of a 20 a goal season player just goes on and on, with nobody ever pointing out that they are a rare exception. The fallacious consensus never gets questioned even though a cursory glance at stats show that it is based on myth. The top six have 20 goal a season players. Everyone else gets by on decent enough strikers who will score some and miss some. That doesn't explain why the other teams who don't have one seem to score more goals than we do. The all round belief in this lie seems to prevent any proper analysis of where we are actually going wrong.

The correct term should be that we need 'goal scorers' not 'a goal scorer'. Teams now above us don't necessarily have a player out scoring our striker or strikers.

Take West Ham as an example. I don't actually think they've been that great this season, I'd hazard a guess that statistically we probably create more chances, but they have goals in their side; Antonio and Bowen both on 8, Fornals 6, Benrahma 5, Lanzini and Soucek 4. 37 goals from 6 players.

Southampton is perhaps closer to us. Adams 7, Broja and Prowse 6, Elyounousssi 4. That's 23 goals from 4 players.

Brighton we have Maupay on 8, so the same as other team's strikers, but after that it's Trossard and Mac A on 4 each, then Welbeck on 3. If the argument was, we don't get into areas to score goals, as perhaps the end of the Hughton era, then it's a different discussion, but we all see with our own eyes the easy presentable chances missed. So then it really does come down to ability. I think we only have 9 scorers in the league this season, Southampton have 11, West Ham have 16.

Jarrod Bowen has undoubtedly improved under Moyes, but that has to come from the player. He is finishing chances that are significantly tougher than our players are regularly presented with in as good areas. Southampton are 2 pts above us having played a game more, but have scored 10 more goals. They've had their poor runs this season no different to us, as have all the teams around us. We've conceded less goals than everyone except the top 7. I would say it really does come down to quality. For my money we should have 2 or 3 midfielders on 5+ goals each. A couple extra here and there. It comes down to quality in the end. You can only coach a player so far.

 

[nwgull]

You don't have to get to the goal line to put in a decent cross. There are countless times every match when a player gets to - let's call it point X - where the whole crowd is thinking 'hit it now, quickly' .......... and they don't - they stop, turn around and pass it back or sideways. Lamptey, March and Cucurella seem the worst, but certainly not the only, offenders. They don't always need to pick out a player - just put it into the goal keeper's corridor of uncertainty.
If they do this more often, attack minded midfielders like Moder, Mac and Mwepu are more likely to go flying in there.

I know, I'm not a player, even less a manager, so I know nothing. Perhaps they've been told to do that, but it's so frustrating seeing players just deciding not to ping in a cross, but turn back and give the opposition time to set up their defences.

Official club Twitter posted a clip of Argie Mac's turn that demonstrated this perfectly. I know about as much as you about football, but even I can see that March taking that extra touch not only gave the two central defenders an extra second to set themselves goal side of Maupay, but it also enabled the defender on Liverpool's left enough time to sprint back and block off the other option, which was a ball slid behind Maupay to Trossard on the far side. A first time quick ball to either Maupay or Trossard here would've given both a great opportunity to smash the ball into the Heineken lounge.

https://twitter.com/OfficialBHAFC/status/1503390243260616704?s=20&t=AMsMEeCEKjAKShyv-x1v8Q

 

[raymondo]

Official club Twitter posted a clip of Argie Mac's turn that demonstrated this perfectly. I know about as much as you about football, but even I can see that March taking that extra touch not only gave the two central defenders an extra second to set themselves goal side of Maupay, but it also enabled the defender on Liverpool's left enough time to sprint back and block off the other option, which was a ball slid behind Maupay to Trossard on the far side. A first time quick ball to either Maupay or Trossard here would've given both a great opportunity to smash the ball into the Heineken lounge.

https://twitter.com/OfficialBHAFC/status/1503390243260616704?s=20&t=AMsMEeCEKjAKShyv-x1v8Q

Good example, thanks

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Official club Twitter posted a clip of Argie Mac's turn that demonstrated this perfectly. I know about as much as you about football, but even I can see that March taking that extra touch not only gave the two central defenders an extra second to set themselves goal side of Maupay, but it also enabled the defender on Liverpool's left enough time to sprint back and block off the other option, which was a ball slid behind Maupay to Trossard on the far side. A first time quick ball to either Maupay or Trossard here would've given both a great opportunity to smash the ball into the Heineken lounge.

https://twitter.com/OfficialBHAFC/status/1503390243260616704?s=20&t=AMsMEeCEKjAKShyv-x1v8Q

This clip is the perfect example of what I and other people have been saying. That it is coaching as well as quality. If Solly rifles that ball across first time it gives us a much better chance of goal, own goal or corner. It's every player in the club looking for extra passes so it has to be a conscious coaching decision, possibly to reduce the counter attack chances, but then there was another one later in the game with Trossard where he delayed and it led to a Liverpool counter attack.

You don't see Liverpool fanny about in the same way. Man City do, but they are good enough. Potter is just trying to be too clever and can't see it. Sometimes the old fashioned virtues are true. Wingers need to get an early ball in. Strikers need to be flying in to get on the end of them.

3 or 4 extra touches or passes, then deciding to put a floaty ball onto VVD's head means your cross count might be good, but you'll never score goals, which is what we're seeing

 

[nwgull]

This clip is the perfect example of what I and other people have been saying. That it is coaching as well as quality. If Solly rifles that ball across first time it gives us a much better chance of goal, own goal or corner. It's every player in the club looking for extra passes so it has to be a conscious coaching decision, possibly to reduce the counter attack chances, but then there was another one later in the game with Trossard where he delayed and it led to a Liverpool counter attack.

You don't see Liverpool fanny about in the same way. Man City do, but they are good enough. Potter is just trying to be too clever and can't see it. Sometimes the old fashioned virtues are true. Wingers need to get an early ball in. Strikers need to be flying in to get on the end of them.

3 or 4 extra touches or passes, then deciding to put a floaty ball onto VVD's head means your cross count might be good, but you'll never score goals, which is what we're seeing

The video posted today makes a nice example of what happens when you put in a first-time cross. Really similar to the example following from Mac Allister's turn and pass to March with Maupay making the forward run into the box and Trossard hanging back, except this time it's a ball to Gross and he doesn't piss about with a touch and just pings it across meaning that the 4 Spurs defenders haven't got time to set themselves and we score an actual goal. Maybe it's a confidence thing?

https://twitter.com/OfficialBHAFC/status/1503687703614926850?s=20&t=AMsMEeCEKjAKShyv-x1v8Q

 

[Danny Wilson Said]

Not a very nice thing to say about one of our players who always does his best.

Oh, and you're wrong.

That Maupay always does his best is not in dispute. But is his best anywhere near good enough? I'd say not. He has tigerish qualities that might be better suited to a defensive midfield role. But he's not quick enough in thought or action at the sharp end.

 

[Danny Wilson Said]

The correct term should be that we need 'goal scorers' not 'a goal scorer'. Teams now above us don't necessarily have a player out scoring our striker or strikers.

Take West Ham as an example. I don't actually think they've been that great this season, I'd hazard a guess that statistically we probably create more chances, but they have goals in their side; Antonio and Bowen both on 8, Fornals 6, Benrahma 5, Lanzini and Soucek 4. 37 goals from 6 players.

Southampton is perhaps closer to us. Adams 7, Broja and Prowse 6, Elyounousssi 4. That's 23 goals from 4 players.

Brighton we have Maupay on 8, so the same as other team's strikers, but after that it's Trossard and Mac A on 4 each, then Welbeck on 3. If the argument was, we don't get into areas to score goals, as perhaps the end of the Hughton era, then it's a different discussion, but we all see with our own eyes the easy presentable chances missed. So then it really does come down to ability. I think we only have 9 scorers in the league this season, Southampton have 11, West Ham have 16.

Jarrod Bowen has undoubtedly improved under Moyes, but that has to come from the player. He is finishing chances that are significantly tougher than our players are regularly presented with in as good areas. Southampton are 2 pts above us having played a game more, but have scored 10 more goals. They've had their poor runs this season no different to us, as have all the teams around us. We've conceded less goals than everyone except the top 7. I would say it really does come down to quality. For my money we should have 2 or 3 midfielders on 5+ goals each. A couple extra here and there. It comes down to quality in the end. You can only coach a player so far.

Nail on head. Bowen had a decent scoring record before joining the 'Ammers though, and has continued to find the net even when being played wide. Our problem is not just Maupay, but the chronic lack of goals from everywhere in the team. March, Moder, Lallana, Lamptey, Cucurella, Gross - not a single goal between them, despite spending long periods in attacking positions and making around 20 appearances each. That, as our distinguished Foreign Secretary might say, is a DISGRACE!

 

[Stato]

That Maupay always does his best is not in dispute. But is his best anywhere near good enough? I'd say not. He has tigerish qualities that might be better suited to a defensive midfield role. But he's not quick enough in thought or action at the sharp end.

Let's take a step back from the frustration of wanting every Brighton player to be faultless and look at that argument.

Maupay has 26 goals in his three seasons in the EPL. This is bettered by:

Salah 61, Kane 52, Vardy 48, Mane 41, Sterling 40, Son 39, Ings 39, Bruno Fernandes 36, Aubameyang 36, Calvert Lewin 36, Rashford, 32, Mahrez 30, Wood 30, Jota 28, De Bruyne 28, Antonio 27, Lacazette 27 & Jiminez 27.

He is tied with Callum Wilson, and has scored more than:

Jesus 25, Zaha 24, Richarlison 24, Martial 22, Gundogan 20, Ihenacho 19, & Bowen 17 and every other player to have played in the division over those three years.

I've left out players who have played less than three seasons, the likes of Watkins, Bamford & Raphinha, but none of them have more EPL goals than Maupay either.

So this defensive midfielder is the joint 19th highest goalscorer over his time in the division. If you discount those at the Failed Super League founding clubs and count only the players currently at one of the other 14, he is joint seventh. Given Wilson's injury problems, lets call it eighth.

During his time in the division no player at Chelsea, Southampton, Palace, Brentford, Leeds, Watford, Burnley, Norwich, Fulham, Bournemouth, West Brom, or Sheffield United has scored more goals than him.

In short, he may not always be perfect, but he is plenty good enough to be playing as a striker for a Premier League club.