Uckfield Lewes line to re-open?

Arthur · Jun 14, 2009

Sunday Express today is reporting that "dozens" of closed railway lines could be reopened. The article specifically mentions the Uckfield to Lewes line as well as the possibility of the Bluebell railway being used as a passenger route.

Anyone know any more about this?

Ernest · Jun 14, 2009

Not a hope in hell, more chance of you going to Dick Tights appreciation evening

Beach Hut · Jun 14, 2009

Never going to happen at present, too expensive

bigc · Jun 14, 2009

While I don't claim to be as well informed as experts such as Lord B, I would be surprised if this happens.

There was a report into it happening last summer and Network Rail worked out it wouldn't be cost effective to do so. However the group that is keen on it reopening claimed the balance had been tipped against the study by the negative attitude of East Sussex County Council towards the reopening.

All the rail reopenings in Wales and Scotland lately have actually done far better than the initial predicted forecasts, so there may be a case for it happening. New transport secretary Lord Adonis is apparently a strong proponent for rail so he may well push it.

Beach Hut · Jun 14, 2009

Ernest said:
I am going to Dick Tights appreciation evening

Excellent, I'll buy you a beer when we are there

bigc · Jun 14, 2009

Beach Hut said:
Never going to happen at present, too expensive

Do you ever see that condition changing?

The Large One · Jun 14, 2009

Lewes to Uckfield railway, feasibility study.. - North Stand Chat

bigc · Jun 14, 2009

On a related note, all London NSCers will have noticed it's all about to "kick off" as it were around London Bridge for the Thameslink works.

Beach Hut · Jun 14, 2009

bigc said:
Do you ever see that condition changing?

Personally I am all for rail as I work in the industry however there is rarely investment of this proportion in a local line.

For instance we build a dedicated high speed rail link (HSRL) yet now we are adding domestic services from Kent to it which devalues the initial idea.

dougdeep · Jun 14, 2009

I think the Bluebell may one day reopen as a working line, it's extending to East Grinstead shortly, and just needs to defeat a few nimbys near Cooksbridge to make it to Lewes. It may not be in my lifetime though.

bigc · Jun 14, 2009

Beach Hut said:
Personally I am all for rail as I work in the industry however there is rarely investment of this proportion in a local line.

For instance we build a dedicated high speed rail link (HSRL) yet now we are adding domestic services from Kent to it which devalues the initial idea.

I assumed that the new services were being factored in around Eurostar services and weren't reducing its capacity. I'm curious how that will go, seeing as it is the first time there has been trains of that speed running domestic services in this country.

Arthur · Jun 14, 2009

Ernest said:
Not a hope in hell, more chance of you going to Dick Tights appreciation evening

Unfortunately I'm at the Hop Farm festival that evening, otherwise you know me.....would have been there with bells on.....and obviously replica shirt, hat, scarf, giant foam hand and a big banner saying "I LOVE DICK"!

jevs · Jun 14, 2009

Don't think it'll ever happen....it will cost far too much money with new bridges having to be built and then there's the problem of getting the line into Lewes railway station as the old route has now been well and truly built on !!!!

Notters · Jun 14, 2009

It's about bloody time would be fantastic for Brighton - no more engineering works problems at weekends

. Would help a lot of people get to falmer too.

Lord Bracknell · Jun 14, 2009

Since the 1980s, there have been a number of "studies" into the economics of re-opening the Uckfield - Lewes line. Every single one of them has reached the conclusion that, whilst the costs of running trains on a re-opened line would be more than met by the extra revenue collected, the capital costs of re-building the line would never be recovered from railway income. If the train operator won't ever get the investment cost back, it'll need public spending to meet the re-building costs.

To justify public spending, someone has to identify the public benefits that would arise from the investment. The problem is that there are loads of other railway investment ideas that deliver a better return than re-opening the Uckfield - Lewes line. In other words, it will always be at the back of the queue behind other, better, projects.

Capital investment in railways, using public money, is usually justified if it can be demonstrated that the spending will relieve road congestion or save money being spent on alternative road improvement schemes. One of the problems with the Uckfield - Lewes route is that there is no local road congestion that would be relieved by re-opening the railway line. Nor are there any plans to spend serious money on improving the A26 north of Lewes, so there is no road investment money to save by diverting it into this particular rail scheme.

Connex had an idea to re-open the line and run all the Eastbourne - Victoria trains via Lewes, Uckfield and Oxted. This would have freed up capacity on the Brighton main line, with a huge public benefit, since that extra capacity would deliver genuine congestion relief. There would, however, be significant disbenefits from running Eastbourne - Victoria trains via Oxted - not the least of which would be the loss of direct services to Gatwick from Hastings, Bexhill, Eastbourne and Lewes.

If, of course, someone was bold enough to double the size of Uckfield by building 10,000 houses there, the costs of re-building the line could be funded by a roof-tax on every new house. And 10,000 new houses in the Uckfield area, built without rail investment, would, of course, deliver enough road congestion to ratchet up the sums to justify public spending on re-opening the line.

In summary ... Ernest is right. Not a hope in hell.

bigc · Jun 14, 2009

Notters said:
It's about bloody time would be fantastic for Brighton - no more engineering works problems at weekends . Would help a lot of people get to falmer too.

I remember seeing a local paper headline a couple of years ago about the estimated money those replacement buses cost us in terms of lost tourism/visitors...

On the subject of Falmer, I would assume, to avoid massive congestion, away fans will be recommended to go to Falmer via Lewes as opposed to travelling down on the Brighton line then heading up to Falmer from there. Just to balance the load somewhat.

surrey jim · Jun 14, 2009

is there a link to the article, had a search on the website but couldnt see it??

Lord Bracknell · Jun 14, 2009

bigc said:
On the subject of Falmer, I would assume, to avoid massive congestion, away fans will be recommended to go to Falmer via Lewes as opposed to travelling down on the Brighton line then heading up to Falmer from there. Just to balance the load somewhat.

Not just away fans. Anyone travelling to Falmer from Wivelsfield, Haywards Heath and points north would be best advised to travel via Lewes.

bigc · Jun 14, 2009

Lord Bracknell said:
Not just away fans. Anyone travelling to Falmer from Wivelsfield, Haywards Heath and points north would be best advised to travel via Lewes.

Like you said in another thread, surely isn't the rail infrastructure really going to struggle getting all the fans to Falmer? Only four trains an hour from Brighton/Lewes.

Beach Hut · Jun 14, 2009

bigc said:
I assumed that the new services were being factored in around Eurostar services and weren't reducing its capacity. I'm curious how that will go, seeing as it is the first time there has been trains of that speed running domestic services in this country.

Start off being factored in then it just gets silly, there will be three trains up in the morning and three back in the evening and a premium tarriff to use the service from Ashford to St Pancras, starts in a week or so.

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