The Jeremy Corbyn thread

ROSM · Jul 10, 2016

London Irish said:
Did you go yesterday? How on earth can you have the brass neck to say the party is in a mess? We have so many new members joining we can't find anywhere to put them

Course I didn't go. I'm no longer a member.

Now momentum have completed their takeover of the local party let's see the deselection of sitting MPs and councillors.. If the stuff said to and about Peter Kyle on social media is to be believed it doesn't matter how popular or effective you are with and for your constituents, if you don't worship the corbyn deity then you're out

deletebeepbeepbeep · Jul 10, 2016

I expect most current Labour members feel like Peter Kyle's views are diametrically opposed to theirs. He's not really a Labour man is he?

Harry Wilson's tackle · Jul 10, 2016

deletebeepbeepbeep said:
I expect most current Labour members feel like Peter Kyle's views are diametrically opposed to theirs. He's not really a Labour man is he?

I know various folk who have joined (or rejoined) in order to vote Corbyn out. Still . . . . I hope someone better than Diedre Dreary puts their head above the parapet soon, or the leadership 'race' will resemble the converse of fox hunting (the uneatable in pursuit of the unspeakable).

Hampster Gull · Jul 10, 2016

Is the looney still in charge?

Soulman · Jul 10, 2016

Hampster Gull said:
Is the looney still in charge?

Yes still in charge but the Eagle is going to challenge him.

GT49er · Jul 10, 2016

Southy said:
I'm no Corbyn supporter but surely Ed Miliband was exactly the kind of leader that the PLP are talking about replacing him with and didnt he just lose a winnable election?

Good point.

CheeseRolls · Jul 11, 2016

London Irish said:
For sure we need PR - until then you have to stick with the largest progressive party

Progressive or retro - Harks back to the golden days of Militant and the GLC.

cunning fergus · Jul 11, 2016

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
I know various folk who have joined (or rejoined) in order to vote Corbyn out. Still . . . . I hope someone better than Diedre Dreary puts their head above the parapet soon, or the leadership 'race' will resemble the converse of fox hunting (the uneatable in pursuit of the unspeakable).

The damage is done and the fracture is becoming a chasm.

Corbyn and his grass roots support won't tolerate this coup, particularly if the NEC seek to deny them a voice in the new leadership election to hand victory to the PLP and their support.

Similarly, if Corbyn wins again the PLP have committed to another leader they can't row back.

We will have 2 parties, a socialist Labour Party led by Corbyn and another arm of the Tory party.

drew · Jul 11, 2016

cunning fergus said:
The damage is done and the fracture is becoming a chasm.

Corbyn and his grass roots support won't tolerate this coup, particularly if the NEC seek to deny them a voice in the new leadership election to hand victory to the PLP and their support.

Similarly, if Corbyn wins again the PLP have committed to another leader they can't row back.

We will have 2 parties, a socialist Labour Party led by Corbyn and another arm of the Tory party.

And isn't that the problem. There is no willingness from the far left to compromise in order to achieve power. Just because you aren't a dyed in the wool out and out socialist doesn't make you a Tory. Maybe a split in the party is inevitable but if it did, almost certainly guaranteeing the Tories a win in 2020.

HitchinSeagull · Jul 11, 2016

Southy said:
I'm no Corbyn supporter but surely Ed Miliband was exactly the kind of leader that the PLP are talking about replacing him with and didnt he just lose a winnable election?

But at the time everyone savy knew the wrong brother was chosen. Its totally obvious that you need to win the middle ground to get elected its just a fact when you look at recent elections, but the unions chose the brother who patted them on the head the most irrespective of leadership or election potential. That went well so the membership exacerbate it by choosing someone playing at student politics.

This seems to me a deliberate attempt to wrest the Labour party back from the centerists and make it more socialist, I believe Corbyn wants to be rid of the MPs and is happy to lose the electorate as long as Labour shifts further left.

Labour are soon to become an irrelevance holding true to their socialist beliefs but of **** all use in protecting workers and their rights.

Ernest · Jul 11, 2016

Has the Eagle LANDED yet ?

beorhthelm · Jul 11, 2016

does anyone else think Eagle isnt a serious contender for a leader? im sure she has virtues, and may have policy ideas many would like, but on ability to actually lead a nation? dithered around on this leadership bid, so either shes either unsure or a stalking horse for others and waiting for their preparations.

Papa Lazarou · Jul 11, 2016

Perhaps, to the benefit of the UK in general, and I would imagine the majority of the voting public as a whole, this, along with the current Tory leadership election, and the growing concerns about Brexit, we may see the rise of a new more inclusive centrist party. I know that's where the Lib Dems sit, but I'm not sure they are capable of appealing to the disenfranchised middle ground voters.

Also, I'd expect an party that is explicitly in the Remain camp would also get a lot of support from the centre of UK politics, particularly a couple of years down the line.

Ernest · Jul 11, 2016

beorhthelm said:
does anyone else think Eagle isnt a serious contender for a leader? im sure she has virtues, and may have policy ideas many would like, but on ability to actually lead a nation? dithered around on this leadership bid, so either shes either unsure or a stalking horse for others and waiting for their preparations.

She came LAST of 4 in the DEPUTY leaders election last year which shows how popular she is and why she is trying to RIG the election.

A truly RANCID individual

London Irish · Jul 11, 2016

beorhthelm said:
does anyone else think Eagle isnt a serious contender for a leader? im sure she has virtues, and may have policy ideas many would like, but on ability to actually lead a nation? dithered around on this leadership bid, so either shes either unsure or a stalking horse for others and waiting for their preparations.

I've openly heard party members on Brighton say they are going to vote for her just to destroy Corbyn and then try and get another leadership election a short while later so their preferred ChickenCoup candidate can come forth. And to think the left get accused of not taking elections seriously, the right in the party just want the eternal chaos of permanent leadership elections that will completely destroy us as a credible force

Gwylan · Jul 11, 2016

Papa Lazarou said:
Also, I'd expect an party that is explicitly in the Remain camp would also get a lot of support from the centre of UK politics, particularly a couple of years down the line.

The LibDems have said, explicitly, that its policy is to remain or apply for re-entry if already out by the time of the next GE.

I can't see them getting lots of support though

London Irish · Jul 11, 2016

ROSM said:
Course I didn't go. I'm no longer a member.

Now momentum have completed their takeover of the local party let's see the deselection of sitting MPs and councillors.. If the stuff said to and about Peter Kyle on social media is to be believed it doesn't matter how popular or effective you are with and for your constituents, if you don't worship the corbyn deity then you're out

I really don't believe there will be mass deselections - once Corbyn wins again - this time by probably about 80 per cent - an olive branch will be offered to all the plotters to work constructively for the good of all Labour Party supporters. As serious people, I expect them to take it. Meanwhile, some good will come of this backbiting, we are now on the road to becoming a million-member party

Bozza · Jul 11, 2016

London Irish said:
And to think the left get accused of not taking elections seriously, the right in the party

They're still left, just not as left as some.

London Irish said:
just want the eternal chaos of permanent leadership elections that will completely destroy us as a credible force

Or a credible and electable leader.

Gwylan · Jul 11, 2016

HitchinSeagull said:
But at the time everyone savy knew the wrong brother was chosen. Its totally obvious that you need to win the middle ground to get elected its just a fact when you look at recent elections,

There are two myths there. Firstly, there's absolutely no evidence that David would have fared better than Ed in the GE. David had the support of nearly all the bigwigs in the party, most of the press and several unions and couldn't win. Given that he'd bottled out of challenging Brown for the leadership a few years earlier, he didn't exactly have "winner" stamped all over him.

In fact, there was an opinion poll a few months before the election that had Ed M rating higher than all other prospective leaders (apart from Alan Johnson) and these included his brother. You could argue that opinion polls aren't always accurate but there's certainly no suggestion that David would have outperformed Ed.

The second myth is that elections are always won from the centre. I agree they are normally but there are exceptions (1945 and 1979 spring to mind) and last year's was another. Labour lost in Scotland because there were outflanked on the left: in Northern cities - because they were perceived as being metropolitan elitists and not tough on immigration (so being more centrist wouldn't have helped) and in some parts of the south were being more centrist may have helped, although I'd argue that fears about the influence of Scotland and Labour's record in the crash had more of an effect (and having David as leader may have cost them more votes in that case).

The other thing that did for Labour was the collapse of the Lib Dem vote - nearly all the seats they lost went to the Conservatives. If the LD vote had held up, the Tories would not have had an overall majority.

In short, Labour was heading for a defeat no matter which Miliband was in charge. The only chance it had was picking Johnson but I think it would have still lost a lot of seats.

Brian Fantana · Jul 11, 2016

Presumably, there's no guarantee that Corbyn would automatically be on the ballot paper for leader again? Would he also not need the backing of 51 MPs and MEPs to be eligible to stand?

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