Aye Aye Ashley

beorhthelm · Feb 22, 2015

symyjym said:
You cannot say that there was little weight unless you think that Matic's leg bent on it's own accord.

i can and i do, because the full sequences shows a different story. look at the still above and then explain how Barnes is supposed to be putting his weight on Matic a moment later. this also explains the apparent bend/collapse of Matic, he has no real strength/weight in the leg so essentially yes, it bend, or rather the ankle does, of its accord as Barnes makes contact. i cant beleive there is actuall a debate about this, its just an odd challenge that didnt injure anyone, and was clearly not even a tackle by the supposed antogonist. if Matic hadnt reacted as he did there wouldnt have been anything about it.

symyjym · Feb 22, 2015

beorhthelm said:
i can and i do, because the full sequences shows a different story. look at the still above and then explain how Barnes is supposed to be putting his weight on Matic a moment later. this also explains the apparent bend/collapse of Matic, he has no real strength/weight in the leg so essentially yes, it bend, or rather the ankle does, of its accord as Barnes makes contact. i cant beleive there is actuall a debate about this, its just an odd challenge that didnt injure anyone, and was clearly not even a tackle by the supposed antogonist. if Matic hadnt reacted as he did there wouldnt have been anything about it.

Blimey, I shouldn't have to explain anything. You can clearly see in the image below that Barnes's trailing foot has left the ground with his leading leg locked straight at the knee.

Accident or not I can't beleive that there is any debate about the force and impact :shrug:

dsr-burnley · Feb 22, 2015

symyjym said:
Blimey, I shouldn't have to explain anything. You can clearly see in the image below that Barnes's trailing foot has left the ground with his leading leg locked straight at the knee.

Accident or not I can't beleive that there is any debate about the force and impact

Of course his trailing foot has left the ground. It has to. When you play a right-footed pass while moving forward, you play the pass with your left foot on the ground and your right foot in the air touching the ball. Then you allow your momentum to carry you forward, your left foot leaves the ground, and your right foot comes to rest on the ground carrying your whole weight. It's a bit like a running action (during which you are often with both feet on the ground and one of them, almost certainly, heading for a fixed point that you can't really affect.)

If someone then puts his knee exactly where your foot is heading, you're going to land on it. Can't be helped. Did Barnes put his full weight on it intending to cause injury? Well, as he caused no injury whatsoever, the evidence says he didn't.

http://i59.tinypic.com/2rvzj4g.jpg

PS - that still photo shows no evidence that his leg was locked at the knee. Here's a photo of him in his Brighton days, making the same manouevre. Either this is a standard position when making a pass, or else the man he was assaulting moved a little faster than Matic!

Triggaaar · Feb 22, 2015

symyjym said:
I can assure you it looks like he was fairly near putting his full weight into his leg;
He's not even looking at the ball.

Of course he was looking at the ball, he played the ball. Showing a still from a few thousandths of a second after he's hit the ball don't show he wasn't looking at it.

Ash knew he caught him bad, and if it was an accident most players would have apologised, made sure they were ok, patted them on the head etc, and then helped them up..

IF he was just making a pass, and the collision was an accident due to Matic's late arrival, then Barnes didn't commit a foul, and if he had apologised he'd have been booked/sent off, so probably best he didn't say anything.

brightn'ove · Feb 22, 2015

symyjym said:
I can assure you it looks like he was fairly near putting his full weight into his leg;
He's not even looking at the ball.

View attachment 63290

Accident or not, it looked like Matic was lucky not to have got his leg broken. Ash knew he caught him bad, and if it was an accident most players would have apologised, made sure they were ok, patted them on the head etc, and then helped them up. It's they way that he got up, turned around, and walked away as if no contact had even been made that makes the whole incident suspicious to what the the split second intent really was.

He is looking in the direction that he passed the ball, this all happens in a fraction of a second!

brightn'ove · Feb 22, 2015

symyjym said:
Blimey, I shouldn't have to explain anything. You can clearly see in the image below that Barnes's trailing foot has left the ground with his leading leg locked straight at the knee.

View attachment 63293

Accident or not I can't beleive that there is any debate about the force and impact

Here is a picture from a few tenths of a second earlier...

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1424626478.158040.jpg

He is looking at the ball and NOT at matic, it's impossible to say that is intentional.

dsr-burnley · Feb 22, 2015

Triggaaar said:
IF he was just making a pass, and the collision was an accident due to Matic's late arrival, then Barnes didn't commit a foul, and if he had apologised he'd have been booked/sent off, so probably best he didn't say anything.

Yes, that's another thing. He was throwing his weight around all day. Nothing in Barnes' game says he has to be nice to the defenders - he was trying (successfully) to get up their noses. When he did flatten one, he wasn't going to apologise. They don't like it up 'em, you know. And it wasn't all one way - Terry got a few hefty challenges in on Barnes, too.

8th battalion East Lancs · Feb 22, 2015

Here he is playing for Brighton and trying to break the Invisible Mans leg.........

.

Mackenzie · Feb 22, 2015

dsr-burnley said:
Yes, that's another thing. He was throwing his weight around all day. Nothing in Barnes' game says he has to be nice to the defenders - he was trying (successfully) to get up their noses. When he did flatten one, he wasn't going to apologise. They don't like it up 'em, you know. And it wasn't all one way - Terry got a few hefty challenges in on Barnes, too.

All part of the strikers game. Good for Barnes, hope he keeps smashing 'em.

Triggaaar · Feb 22, 2015

8th battalion East Lancs said:
Here he is playing for Brighton and trying to break the Invisible Mans leg.........

.View attachment 63296

Fair enough, I take it all back, that is ****ing reckless. The FA needs to do something now, or he'll carry on until he ends someone's career.

Hillian1 · Feb 22, 2015

The more I see it, the more it was the Chelsea players fault.

Good on you Ash, balsa wood players don't like to be touched.

Triggaaar · Feb 22, 2015

Triggaaar said:
But I agree with you, we need to know whether Barnes deliberately followed through to try and hurt Matic. And I can't tell without first studying how he normally passes the ball when under pressure.

Thanks to 8th battalion East Lancs, it seems fairly clear that Barnes's follow through was just how he plays football.

Barnes has done nothing at all wrong, and Matic is just lucky that his late, mistimed tackle, didn't result in a nasty injury for himself.

Thunder Bolt · Feb 22, 2015

8th battalion East Lancs said:
Here he is playing for Brighton and trying to break the Invisible Mans leg.........

.View attachment 63296

I miss Barnes.

drew · Feb 22, 2015

8th battalion East Lancs said:
As for that boring Geordie juan anchor on Match Of The Day, check him out kicking Lennon full in the face like a coward (31 seconds in)........

Isn't that Brighton's very own Martin Bodenham as the man in the middle?

symyjym · Feb 22, 2015

[MENTION=29976]dsr-burnley[/MENTION] [MENTION=4019]Triggaaar[/MENTION]

Both of you are not taking into account the comments that I was responding to.

Beorhthelm said

beorhthelm said:
he knew he hadnt put anywhere near full weight .

I am explaining that the impact, deliberate or not, is close to full weight.

And also what I am saying is that if it were an accident, the normal reaction would be to see if the player is ok, especially after hearing Matic scream. It is Barnes’s oblivious reaction that looks odd when he knew it could have been a very serious injury. He couldn't get away quick enough.

Had he checked to see if Matic was ok afterwards, an accident would be plausible.

You may disagree with me, but I am just saying how I would have acted if I had potentially injured someone by accident. How would you have reacted in Barnes's position? Flee? :shrug:

Triggaaar · Feb 22, 2015

symyjym said:
@dsr-burnley @Triggaaar

Both of you are not taking into account the comments that I was responding to.

Ok, sorry I sometimes just see a post in isolation.

And also what I am saying is that if it were an accident, the normal reaction would be to see if the player is ok, especially after hearing Matic scream.

I think he'd have got booked if he apologised, and I don't think he committed an offence.

How would you have reacted in Barnes's position? Flee

It depends on my mood at the time, whether I'd just been on the receiving end of a challenge from Terry, or whether I felt that Matic was coming in late and could have hurt me etc, it's difficult to guess how I'd have reacted.

dsr-burnley · Feb 22, 2015

symyjym said:
[MENTION=29976]dsr-burnley[/MENTION] [MENTION=4019]Triggaaar[/MENTION]

And also what I am saying is that if it were an accident, the normal reaction would be to see if the player is ok, especially after hearing Matic scream.

I don't think Matic screamed. It was Ivanovic in the first half who screamed like a baby.

symyjym · Feb 22, 2015

brightn'ove said:
He is looking at the ball and NOT at matic, it's impossible to say that is intentional.

I have seen all the images and it is impossible to say that it was not intentional as well.

My point is, and I know no one is really reading what I have been writing, that it is his response afterwards, like turning around and fleeing, whilst every other player is looking at Matic. Had he stayed on the scene to see if Matic was ok it would have looked like an accident.

symyjym · Feb 22, 2015

Triggaaar said:
Ok, sorry I sometimes just see a post in isolation.
I think he'd have got booked if he apologised, and I don't think he committed an offence.

It depends on my mood at the time, whether I'd just been on the receiving end of a challenge from Terry, or whether I felt that Matic was coming in late and could have hurt me etc, it's difficult to guess how I'd have reacted.

Yes I know it happens on here a lot.

Not to actually apologise, but to make sure the players is ok, signal to the dugouts for treatment, pat him on the head, or help him up etc. If he had a tail, when he walked away it would have been between his legs.

This is one of those incidents that can be argued forever but this is my view.

Acker79 · Feb 22, 2015

dsr-burnley said:
I don't think Matic screamed. It was Ivanovic in the first half who screamed like a baby.

And then rolled around a couple of times, then got up and stomped over showing no sign of injury, either.

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