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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

  • Total voters
    1,081


studio150

studio150

Well-known member
Jul 30, 2011
29,637
On the Border
beorhthelm said:
because they will not accept the democratic verdict.
Click to expand...

Time and time again this gets brought out, and played as if it some trump card.

It has nothing to do with not accepting the outcome of the referendum, but its being allowed to voice concerns on what Brexit will bring. However yet again you are looking to close down any voice that does not fully support the red white and blue Brexit or whatever it is called now.
 




JC Footy Genius

JC Footy Genius

Bringer of TRUTH
Jun 9, 2015
10,568
studio150 said:
John Major speaking sense

View attachment 82558
Click to expand...

What is it with some Remain diehards that they have to play the victim card all the time. This tedious line (often repeated on here) that people are trying to silence legitimate comment is cobblers. It's quite straight forward, some people who voted remain still don't accept the result and like to continue the campaign but can't stand being challenged and called out on their undemocratic, extreme pov. If it really was about shutting down dissenting voices it certainly isn't working!

Also think people who won't even give Brexit a chance before writing it off , or think a country the size of the UK is incapable of prospering outside the EU, like the vast majority of countries around the world ... have a strange sort of patriotism.
 


beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,315
studio150 said:
Time and time again this gets brought out, and played as if it some trump card.

It has nothing to do with not accepting the outcome of the referendum, but its being allowed to voice concerns on what Brexit will bring. However yet again you are looking to close down any voice that does not fully support the red white and blue Brexit or whatever it is called now.
Click to expand...

im not looking to close down concerns. voice them, make them clear and purposeful, within the context of accepting that we are now going to leave the EU. what i dont want to hear is the doom mongering, the likes of Blair's mission to change our minds, calls for another vote from Clegg, the vilifying the exit process as intentionally hard and negative. just as in the campaign, remain are not making the case for europe but against leaving. maybe if the remainers engaged more positivly they might steer the converstation and influence the outcome, because im certain all the the time they rile against the verdict be fought against by the hard line leavers and sidelined.
 


Baldseagull

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,958
Crawley
JC Footy Genius said:
What is it with some Remain diehards that they have to play the victim card all the time. This tedious line (often repeated on here) that people are trying to silence legitimate comment is cobblers. It's quite straight forward, some people who voted remain still don't accept the result and like to continue the campaign but can't stand being challenged and called out on their undemocratic, extreme pov. If it really was about shutting down dissenting voices it certainly isn't working!

Also think people who won't even give Brexit a chance before writing it off , or think a country the size of the UK is incapable of prospering outside the EU, like the vast majority of countries around the world ... have a strange sort of patriotism.
Click to expand...

If you see someone about to drill a hole in a boat to let the water out, do you think you should give their idea a chance, or try and make them see sense?
 


Baldseagull

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,958
Crawley
beorhthelm said:
im not looking to close down concerns. voice them, make them clear and purposeful, within the context of accepting that we are now going to leave the EU. what i dont want to hear is the doom mongering, the likes of Blair's mission to change our minds, calls for another vote from Clegg, the vilifying the exit process as intentionally hard and negative. just as in the campaign, remain are not making the case for europe but against leaving. maybe if the remainers engaged more positivly they might steer the converstation and influence the outcome, because im certain all the the time they rile against the verdict be fought against by the hard line leavers and sidelined.
Click to expand...

It is impossible for anyone who has reached the conclusions that I have, to be positive about what is about to happen. I envy your blind faith sometimes.
 




studio150

studio150

Well-known member
Jul 30, 2011
29,637
On the Border
JC Footy Genius said:
some people who voted remain still don't accept the result and like to continue the campaign but can't stand being challenged and called out on their undemocratic, extreme pov.

Also think people who won't even give Brexit a chance before writing it off , or think a country the size of the UK is incapable of prospering outside the EU, like the vast majority of countries around the world ... have a strange sort of patriotism.
Click to expand...

This is just getting tedious yet again not accepting the referendum result gets shouted out, together with the second favourite that being realistic and voicing concerns that we will be poorer and worse off for some considerable length of time is not acceptable or to use your words have a strange sort of patriotism.

It is not saying that the UK is incapable of prospering outside of the EU, just that the degree of economic growth and wealth will be lower for a period of time than what it would have been by staying within the EU.

I just don;t get why the level of patriotism has to be linked to unrealistic positive predictions.
 


Baldseagull

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,958
Crawley
sir albion said:
Completely disagree as I find the liberal left "anti British" and many of them are students with little or no experience in life and of whom have read to many books on our history and put 2 and 2 together.

You can bet your right bollock that if this country went to war and huge call ups were required the liberals would run and hide like little babies as that's what they're.....weak people scared of change !!!!
Click to expand...

If I were anti British, I would have voted leave.
I don't mind change, I just like it to be for the better.
 






Mental Lental

Mental Lental

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
2,273
Shiki-shi, Saitama
studio150 said:
This is just getting tedious yet again not accepting the referendum result gets shouted out, together with the second favourite that being realistic and voicing concerns that we will be poorer and worse off for some considerable length of time is not acceptable or to use your words have a strange sort of patriotism.

It is not saying that the UK is incapable of prospering outside of the EU, just that the degree of economic growth and wealth will be lower for a period of time than what it would have been by staying within the EU.

I just don;t get why the level of patriotism has to be linked to unrealistic positive predictions.
Click to expand...

They like to throw around this word "democracy" like confetti don't they? In their simple minds disagreeing with the outcome of this grotty little plebiscite is tantamount to being against democracy in all it's myriad forms.

:rolleyes:
 












nicko31

nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
17,611
Gods country fortnightly




D

Deleted member 22389

Guest
nicko31 said:
I said this before Xmas on here and got abused for more project fear

https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/2901924/shrinkflation-supermarkets-price-stays-same/
Click to expand...

Packet sizes have been shrinking for years. This article was from April last year
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/20/supermarket-products-smaller-size-prices-stay-same

This article is from 2015
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...ite-products-smaller-NOT-shrinking-price.html

This article is from the US in 2014
https://www.bostonglobe.com/lifesty...ing-package/Ti6VwQCCcg0whLdr8bHnyJ/story.html

Sorry this can't be blamed on Brexit, doesn't matter what country they do it across the board.
 
Last edited by a moderator:


nicko31

nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
17,611
Gods country fortnightly
bashlsdir said:
Packet sizes have been shrinking for years. This article was from April last year
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/20/supermarket-products-smaller-size-prices-stay-same

This article is from 2015
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...ite-products-smaller-NOT-shrinking-price.html

This article is from the US in 2014
https://www.bostonglobe.com/lifesty...ing-package/Ti6VwQCCcg0whLdr8bHnyJ/story.html

Sorry this can't be blamed on Brexit, doesn't matter what country they do it across the board.
Click to expand...

Add to that rising prices, fewer offers, you clearly know little about retail
 


Mental Lental

Mental Lental

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
2,273
Shiki-shi, Saitama
beorhthelm said:
they are the reason why charges of arrogance and elistism are being leveled at them, because they will not accept the democratic verdict.
Click to expand...

JC Footy Genius said:
some people who voted remain still don't accept the result and like to continue the campaign but can't stand being challenged and called out on their undemocratic, extreme pov.
Click to expand...

Ok, I'm not really down with this shit. This stupidity that not accepting the results of a referendum is somehow "undemocratic" has been trolled out non-stop by leavers ever since the result came in and I've had enough of it. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say something that will have the Brexiters spitting their tea out all over their computer screens........

REFERENDUMS ARE UNDEMOCRATIC

There! Didn't see that one coming did you? How can I possibly argue this load of absolute nonsense then? Well, it's gonna be a long one so bear with me.....

There were a series of absolutely corking referendums in Germany in the 1930s....From that famously "democratic" organisation known as the National Socialist German Workers' Party.....

I liked this one in 1933 about withdrawing from The League of Nations....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_referendum,_1933

And this absolute cracker of a referendum where 38 MILLION people (88% YES) thought it would be a good idea to merge the position of Chancellor and President into one absolute ruler known as "The Fuhrer".....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_referendum,_1934

Check out this one where 98.8% of "the people" thought it would be a good idea to invade the Rhineland and thus violate the Treaty of Versailles....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_election_and_referendum,_1936

And let's top off this little series of referendums with this classic (there's actually a pic of the ballot paper here).......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germa...m,_1938#/media/File:Stimmzettel-Anschluss.jpg

Yay referendums aye? Yay democracy!!!! :clap:

Funnily enough after the war in Europe was over Churchill suggested having one of our own about waiting until victory in Japan before breaking the all-party coalition. Clement Attlee was unimpressed with this idea, saying....

“I could not consent to the introduction into our national life of a device so alien to all our traditions as the referendum, which has only too often been the instrument of Nazism and fascism.” (https://capx.co/referendums-are-a-quintessentially-british-institution/)

Ironically the UK didn't feel the need to hold a referendum until 1975....About the UK’s continuing membership of the European Economic Community. Even Mrs Thatch seemed to think that holding a referendum was a wholly "undemocratic" enterprise at the time....

“The late Lord Attlee was right when he said that the referendum was a device of dictators and demagogues.” (http://www.margaretthatcher.org/document/102649)

Interesting that once she was in office she never held a single referendum in those 11 years....

Of course Germany, now a fully democratic country, still remembers it's wartime past (even if most brexiteers don't) and has banned referendums altogether. Hitler made them realise that referendums are dangerous tools that can be used by weak governments to mobilise "the people" into yelling all at once. This creates a thunderclap of noise centered around the "popular opinion" that legitimises their argument and drowns out opposing views. To say it again for the cheap seats...REAL democracy is a system that recognises the right for the losers to still have representation and a voice. This is why we actually run the country via parliamentary democracy, rather than referendums.

Because referendums are undemocratic.
 
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D

Deleted member 22389

Guest
Mental Lental said:
Ok, I'm not really down with this shit. This stupidity that not accepting the results of a referendum is somehow "undemocratic" has been trolled out non-stop by leavers ever since the result came in and I've had enough of it. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say something that will have the Brexiters spitting their tea out all over their computer screens........

REFERENDUMS ARE UNDEMOCRATIC

There! Didn't see that one coming did you? How can I possibly argue this load of absolute nonsense then? Well, it's gonna be a long one so bear with me.....

There were a series of absolutely corking referendums in Germany in the 1930s....From that famously "democratic" organisation known as the National Socialist German Workers' Party.....

I liked this one in 1933 about withdrawing from The League of Nations....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_referendum,_1933

And this absolute cracker of a referendum where 38 MILLION people (88% YES) thought it would be a good idea to merge the position of Chancellor and President into one absolute ruler known as "The Fuhrer".....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_referendum,_1934

Check out this one where 98.8% of "the people" thought it would be a good idea to invade the Rhineland and thus violate the Treaty of Versailles....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_election_and_referendum,_1936

And let's top off this little series of referendums with this classic (there's actually a pic of the ballot paper here).......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germa...m,_1938#/media/File:Stimmzettel-Anschluss.jpg

Yay referendums aye? Yay democracy!!!! :clap:

Funnily enough after the war in Europe was over Churchill suggested having one of our own about waiting until victory in Japan before breaking the all-party coalition. Clement Attlee was unimpressed with this idea, saying....

“I could not consent to the introduction into our national life of a device so alien to all our traditions as the referendum, which has only too often been the instrument of Nazism and fascism.” (https://capx.co/referendums-are-a-quintessentially-british-institution/)

Ironically the UK didn't feel the need to hold a referendum until 1975....About the UK’s continuing membership of the European Economic Community. Even Mrs Thatch seemed to think that holding a referendum was a wholly "undemocratic" enterprise at the time....

“The late Lord Attlee was right when he said that the referendum was a device of dictators and demagogues.” (http://www.margaretthatcher.org/document/102649)

Interesting that once she was in office she never held a single referendum in those 11 years....

Of course Germany, now a fully democratic country, still remembers it's wartime past (even if most brexiteers don't) and has banned referendums altogether. Hitler made them realise that referendums are dangerous tools that can be used by weak governments to mobilise "the people" into yelling all at once. This creates a thunderclap of noise centered around the "popular opinion" that legitimises their argument and drowns out opposing views. To say it again for the cheap seats...REAL democracy is a system that recognises the right for the losers to still have representation and a voice. This is why we actually run the country via parliamentary democracy, rather than referendums.

Because referendums are undemocratic.
Click to expand...

What other methods could have been used if not a referendum? People where deeply unhappy with the EU. Are people just meant to put up and shut up. Something had to change, because was clear the EU wasn't.
 


C

cheshunt seagull

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
2,498
sir albion said:
Completely disagree as I find the liberal left "anti British" and many of them are students with little or no experience in life and of whom have read to many books on our history and put 2 and 2 together.

You can bet your right bollock that if this country went to war and huge call ups were required the liberals would run and hide like little babies as that's what they're.....weak people scared of change !!!!
Click to expand...

You suggest that there is an optimal number of books to have read before weakening levels of knowledge and empathy kick in…..if you can spell Amritsar you have definitely read too many.

As for weak liberals; my Dad was a lifelong liberal-leftie but served with distinction at Cassino and let’s consider those armchair warriors from the International Brigades in the 1930s. How about my friend (real friend, not Nuttall-type friend) who was on the top floor of the Tavistock Square bus and helped her fellow survivors on the day and in the months after. She saw scenes of unimaginable horror but today campaigns for tolerance and greater understanding between communities as she believes that this is the best way to prevent such horrors in the future. People are motivated by different things but courage takes many forms and it is rather different from getting tanked up and urinating in a Belgian fountain or marching down the streets of Luton with a Union Jack.
 


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