Dyche still after Stephens

BensGrandad · Nov 7, 2016

Bozza said:
I've written about this before but there's a curious disparity in the perception of Stephens and Kayal that generally goes like this...

Albion fans: Kayal > Stephens
The wider football world: Stephens > Kayal

Stephens is the foundation on which our team is built without foundations a house may look nice but will fall down eventually.

MattBackHome · Nov 7, 2016

Stephens is brilliant (and to a degree small he is underrated here - simply by virtue of being less 'all-action' than Kayal) and I wouldn't sell until the summer.

Guinness Boy · Nov 7, 2016

Bozza said:
I've written about this before but there's a curious disparity in the perception of Stephens and Kayal that generally goes like this...

Albion fans: Kayal > Stephens
The wider football world: Stephens > Kayal

Slight correction - the wider football world plus [MENTION=791]The Albion Roar[/MENTION]

I must admit I've always seen Kayal as the more important of the two. He has leadership qualities that Stephens doesn't and just seems to be in the right place at the right time so often. However - we've gone on a stupendous run without him. Some of that is down to Sidwell and some fantastic filling in from Norwood. Dale's played his part too, though I thought he started poorly against Norwich, giving the ball away far too cheaply.

Stato · Nov 7, 2016

Should Stephens be out of contract after another very impressive season at the Albion, whether or not we go up, he will, no doubt, have a good choice of a number of generous offers from teams who can give him Premier League football. What the summer has shown us is that, in this event, the offer from Burnley's board is likely to be the lowest by some considerable margin.

Not Andy Naylor · Nov 7, 2016

Guinness Boy said:
Slight correction - the wider football world plus [MENTION=791]The Albion Roar[/MENTION]

I must admit I've always seen Kayal as the more important of the two. He has leadership qualities that Stephens doesn't and just seems to be in the right place at the right time so often. However - we've gone on a stupendous run without him. Some of that is down to Sidwell and some fantastic filling in from Norwood. Dale's played his part too, though I thought he started poorly against Norwich, giving the ball away far too cheaply.

So much of football is about blend and partnerships, and Kayal-Stephens have a great understanding. But Sidwell-Norwood and Sidwell-Stephens have also looked better than we could have expected this season. As they say, good players can always play together (except Lampard and Gerrard, apparently).

Finchley Seagull · Nov 7, 2016

Bozza said:
I've written about this before but there's a curious disparity in the perception of Stephens and Kayal that generally goes like this...

Albion fans: Kayal > Stephens
The wider football world: Stephens > Kayal

Agreed. I found that very odd this summer. I believe Kayal is the better player and was very surprised there was no talk of offers for him. I wonder whether it was his injury record at Celtic that put teams off (although Stephens had a long injury lay off with us).

Bozza · Nov 7, 2016

Guinness Boy said:
Slight correction - the wider football world plus [MENTION=791]The Albion Roar[/MENTION]

I must admit I've always seen Kayal as the more important of the two. He has leadership qualities that Stephens doesn't and just seems to be in the right place at the right time so often. However - we've gone on a stupendous run without him. Some of that is down to Sidwell and some fantastic filling in from Norwood. Dale's played his part too, though I thought he started poorly against Norwich, giving the ball away far too cheaply.

I slotted in 'generally' in my post to try and save people the need to point out that they were the exception to my broad rule!

For me, Kayal doesn't get enough goals despite being in position to do so. Dean Hammond was the same.

Marshy · Nov 7, 2016

Stephens has far more goals in him than Kayal is a key factor i believe, this makes him harder to replace I guess and he is a bigger unit that Kayal which all managers like.

Again though If i had to only keep one of Kayal or Stephens.... as much as it would break my heart to lose Stephens its Kayal I would keep.

BensGrandad · Nov 7, 2016

Marshy said:
Stephens has far more goals in him than Kayal is a key factor i believe, this makes him harder to replace I guess and he is a bigger unit that Kayal which all managers like.

Again though If i had to only keep one of Kayal or Stephens.... as much as it would break my heart to lose Stephens its Kayal I would keep.

Sorry to disagree I would keep Stephens as we have shown we do not miss Kayal and his replacements are more than adequate.

hans kraay fan club · Nov 7, 2016

BensGrandad said:
Has this not all escalated because Burnley didn't have the money to buy Dale Stephens and wanted to buy him on very extended terms that BHA wouldnt accept. So even with the promotion prize money they still cant afford to buy a player.

Of course they could afford to. They ended up paying more for Hendrick. They were well able to offer more for Stephens had they wanted to.

Steve Foster said:
Stephens has been offered £4m in January to leave to go to Burnley.
Unless the club offer him at least the same, he will, I assure you be gone - regardless of where we are in the table or whether the manager/chairman wants him to stay

A PACKAGE worth £4m is very believable - i.e. wages included. A £4m singing on, lump sum. Not a chance.

Steve Foster said:
Indeed. My understanding is that a deal will be done in January for Stephens to go at the end of the season, unless the club match the Burnley signing on fee of £4m, which as of last week they hadn't.

Whatever inside information you have, you've definitely got your wires crossed somewhere. The scenario you present is LITERALLY not possible.

dsr-burnley said:
When a player is out of contract in summer, he can negotiate with any other club from January. I think he can sign a pre-contract as well.
.

No. No, he can't.

Nixonator · Nov 7, 2016

beefypigeon said:
Honestly I don't know what to make of Stephens.

He's a good player, no doubt. He contributes to the team and is a reassuring presence in the middle of the pitch.

But it's very rare in my opinion, that he stands out as having a really good game. He strikes me as the weaker link in almost any central midfield partnership he's a part of. Alongside Kayal, Kayal for me was our standout player last year. This season, Sidwell has been our best central midfielder.

Personally, I wouldn't sell him purely on the basis that it would disrupt the squad and it is pivotal that we stay #together. But purely on an 'ability' basis, I think £6m for him is fairly good business.

You're not watching closely enough. He breaks up play better than BK, is more of a physical presence, does the dirtier side of the game alot better, has a fierce shot and a genuine goal threat, better in the air defensively and from our set plays.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love BK and he is not far behind on the points above, and he also does some things better than DS for example, Dale will always try and move the ball on quickly, often first time, whereas BK is better in possession, running with the ball and taking a player on.

I've always felt they've been more or less equal in terms of importance. The fact you claim DS is the 'weaker link' not just in terms of comparisons with BK, but with ON and SS too, is absolutely staggering, for what happened at Wigan alone (not even talking about his goal).

Personally, I wouldn't sell him purely on the basis that he is a quality player, and absolutely integral to our promotion chances.

Normski1989 · Nov 7, 2016

Nixonator said:
You're not watching closely enough. He breaks up play better than BK, is more of a physical presence, does the dirtier side of the game alot better...

I agree with your entire post, but particular the bit above. Both players work hard and give 100%, but have different strengths. Stephens is more physical, whereas I think Kayal is a more intelligent player. As we saw last year, they create an incredible partnership as they both excel where the other lacks slightly.

I think Sidwell is more like Kayal, in the way that he's an intelligent player, which explains why he's forming a good partnership with Stephens too.

Marshy · Nov 7, 2016

BensGrandad said:
Sorry to disagree I would keep Stephens as we have shown we do not miss Kayal and his replacements are more than adequate.

We have been pretty good in games without Stephens too...... we certainly do miss Kayal, just not as much as we used to with the quality we have in Norwood and Sidwell.

But really for me there is no right or wrong answer on this one, both players are very very good.

BensGrandad · Nov 7, 2016

Not much to choose between them but we definitely missed Stephens when he was out and it showed.but it doesnt show as much with the absence of Kayal.. The difference this year to lastr as that we have an adequate replacement for one of our good players which we didnt last year after Bong then LR got injured. If Sidwell or Stephens got injured to go with Kayal Noweood could deputise adequately unlike last year.

beefypigeon · Nov 7, 2016

Nixonator said:
You're not watching closely enough. He breaks up play better than BK, is more of a physical presence, does the dirtier side of the game alot better, has a fierce shot and a genuine goal threat, better in the air defensively and from our set plays.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love BK and he is not far behind on the points above, and he also does some things better than DS for example, Dale will always try and move the ball on quickly, often first time, whereas BK is better in possession, running with the ball and taking a player on.

I've always felt they've been more or less equal in terms of importance. The fact you claim DS is the 'weaker link' not just in terms of comparisons with BK, but with ON and SS too, is absolutely staggering, for what happened at Wigan alone (not even talking about his goal).

Personally, I wouldn't sell him purely on the basis that he is a quality player, and absolutely integral to our promotion chances.

I'm not in any way doubting that he's an important player for us, I think he's great. He does as you say do the 'dirtier side' well, and does contribute occasionally with a goal (much like SS and BK).

My observation however is that more often than not he doesn't 'shine' quite as brightly as the CM he is partnered with. Kayal was voted our player of the season last year for a reason, and this season SS has been MOTM the last couple of games imho.

Perhaps his presence in the middle may give whoever he is partnered with more assurance/license to express themselves. I don't know.

Captain Sensible · Nov 7, 2016

Bozza said:
I've written about this before but there's a curious disparity in the perception of Stephens and Kayal that generally goes like this...

Albion fans: Kayal > Stephens
The wider football world: Stephens > Kayal

I'm with the wider football world. I love Kayal, but Stephens is the midfield controller. Kayal the enforcer. With Stephens in midfield we almost never get overrun even against a midfield 3 or sometimes 4! He just has the ability to set the pace and start things off. His ability to be in the right place at the right time and make interceptions is impressive. He also scores more than Kayal. Sidwell is doing a great job of enforcer in place of Kayal, but Stephens is less replaceable.

Machiavelli · Nov 7, 2016

Normski1989 said:
I agree with your entire post, but particular the bit above. Both players work hard and give 100%, but have different strengths. Stephens is more physical, whereas I think Kayal is a more intelligent player. As we saw last year, they create an incredible partnership as they both excel where the other lacks slightly.

I think Sidwell is more like Kayal, in the way that he's an intelligent player, which explains why he's forming a good partnership with Stephens too.

Depends what you mean by physical. In terms of Kayal, the way that he uses his body to shield the ball from opponents, intercept, win 50-50s is quite sublime in my view, and these factors make him more physical than Stephens. But I can see how you could stack up a list for Stephens.

lawros left foot · Nov 7, 2016

Stephens didn't start in either of our two defeats this season, and didn't get on at all in the Newcastle game.His win record this season is very good.

Forest-3-0 , came on as sub 76 mins. Win
Rotherham-3-0, played 90mins. Win
Reading-2-2, not in squad. Draw
Newcastle-0-2, unused sub. Loss
Brentford-0-2, sub, came 69mins. Loss
Huddersfield-1-0,played 90mins. Win
Burton-1-0,played 90mins. Win
Barnsley-2-0,played 90mins. Win
Ipswich-0-0, sent off 82min. Draw
Wednesday-2-1,suspended. Win
Preston-2-2,sub came on 82min. Draw
Wolves-1-0,sub came on 83 min. Win
Wigan-1-0, sub came on 68mins, only goal. Win
Norwich-5-0 started. Win
Bristol City-2-0,started. Win

We have won every game bar one,that he has started this season, we have lost one, drawn one ,won one, where he has played no part.
We have won three, drawn one, and lost one when he has come on as sub.
With stats like this,he is a very,very, important player to us.
We'd be mad to let him go, even in the Summer

BrianWade4 · Nov 7, 2016

Tell the sandy voiced **** to prig off

lawros left foot · Nov 7, 2016

Kayaks record this season-

Forest-3-0,started,sub 76mins. Win
Rotherham-3-0,unused sub. Win
Reading-2-2, played 90mins. Draw
Newcastle-0-2,played 90mins. Loss
Brentford-0-2,played 90mins. Loss
Huddersfield-1-0,played 90mins. Win
Burton-1-0,subbed 80mins. Win
Barnsley-2-0,subbed 46mins. Win.

Injured, taken no part after Barnsley

We have won 4, drawn one, lost two, that Beram has started.

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