Yes I know, I don't want to change anything thanks. But you do, and singularly fail to provide any form of solution on how it's going to happen.
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[Politics] Brexit
- Thread starter KingstonSeagull
- Start date
Garry Nelson's teacher
Well-known member
Certainly Boris has addressed the issue with his customary grasp of detail.(In effect - "f&ck it, who cares?"). But I think the ball is in the our court? As Bernier is apt to say, ironically in the style of Basil Fawlty talking to the Germans, "you started it". I think we underestimate on the determination of the EU to maintain the integrity of the single market....unless this is just a shrewd negotiating position.
It's instructive to ask the question: 'what does the EU want as the outcome of these negotiations?' I'm 'with' the leavers' perspective in that I guess they want unfettered access to UK markets and they'd also like to keep at least some of the UK Budget contribution. What are they prepared to 'sacrifice' to get these? This is what negotiation is about and the lose-lose (which is how I frame the Ress-Mogg outcome) should concentrate the minds of both parties. But we've at least got to be organised enough to present a coherent case - which everyone awaits. This sets up May's Friday speech - we can't keep prevaricating: the 'deep and meaningful relationship' needs explaining.
And both sides have seen the flaws in it and why it wont work.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
You're right. I'd love those posters to visit Northern Ireland and see what progress has been made since the Good Friday agreement. Over 3K people died in the Troubles, but it's all the fault of the EU.
pastafarian
Well-known member
you can try 100 times, my answer is still the same, i believe the technological solutions the EU and the UK are discussing with regard to the Irish border will not result in the fallback draft customs union option outlined that as caused so many remainers to rejoice today thinking we have screwed the Tories.
SO knowing we are leaving the EU and going to be outside the single market and customs union.........whats your solution?
- Jul 10, 2003
- 25,808
Absolutely pitiful.
pastafarian
Well-known member
interesting you like to dodge the actual question.....lets try again
What are the advantages of joining a customs union where we have no vote no veto no influence or input on our international trade or the international trade The EU will do on our behalf, because we will be out of the EU body that makes these decisions?
vegster
Sanity Clause
- May 5, 2008
- 27,892
We were led to believe that the EU would be desperate to keep the UK sweet as we were their biggest market for so many goods and services, and that they would be desperate to maintain the current levels of trade, " the easiest deal in the world " ......not going so well now though. I really wouldn't be expecting much from May's speech, it will probably throw up a new tagline for what we seek, at least for a couple of weeks until the next cabinet member contradicts it and the squabbling continues. How the EU are supposed to negotiate with our shower is beyond me.
pastafarian
Well-known member
Frack me
Note to self.....dont take the early shift
Note to self.....dont take the early shift
Garry Nelson's teacher
Well-known member
If the alternative is to stay in the EU then you are right - it is difficult to argue the case.
If the alternative is to crash out onto WTO-rules then it is infinitely preferable (seems to be thus with British business).
So let's all agree and simply stay in the EU.
- Jul 10, 2003
- 25,808
So to summarise the Leavers solutions to Ireland
Westdene Seagull - A United Ireland
beoththelm - Lots of borders, no borders (I think)
pastafarian - Technology innit
Maybe [MENTION=33253]JC Footy Genius[/MENTION] has the answer. Good to see the Brexiteers getting all their ducks in a row
Westdene Seagull - A United Ireland
beoththelm - Lots of borders, no borders (I think)
If there are no borders, where are you going to control and monitor these bloody goods FFS
I'm really not trying to be awkward but .....
pastafarian - Technology innit
Maybe [MENTION=33253]JC Footy Genius[/MENTION] has the answer. Good to see the Brexiteers getting all their ducks in a row
I've not dodged anything. I told you there are no advantages to a customs union except the one thing that matters most - that it preserves the GFA. The best solution would be to stay within the EU (but you've got your fingers in your ears there). So I really don't think I can be more clear than that.
So let's try again, although I fear you'll dodge the question yourself. Given that - having signed the GFA, we are now looking to change the status quo of free movement across the EU, of which both sides of the Irish border are members - what is YOUR solution to it? You'll need to frame an answer with reference to movement of goods, services and people across that border to avoid dodging the question.
Indeed, you seem MILES out of your depth.
pastafarian
Well-known member
This is what disgusts me about the Brexit debate, people like you politicising The GFA because you have run out of excuses to overturn Brexit.You should be ****ing ashamed of yourself.....but you wont be,your infantile moral pomposity is skewed only to acknowledge your own bigotry
ManOfSussex
We wunt be druv
So to summarise the Leavers solutions to Ireland
Westdene Seagull - A United Ireland
beoththelm - Lots of borders, no borders (I think)
pastafarian - Technology innit
Maybe [MENTION=33253]JC Footy Genius[/MENTION] has the answer. Good to see the Brexiteers getting all their ducks in a row
You forgot the 'Blame it on The EU if a hard border happens' one, overlooking the fact we joined the The EEC/EU/EEA et all at the same time as The Republic of Ireland and intertwined and integrated for 40+ years alongside them in an organisation of international treaties enshrined in law and are now we're the ones who threw our toys out of the pram and are wanting to walk away, Dublin aren't blaming The EU for this mess and Anglo-Irish relations are souring and getting worse a daily basis.
His answer is to accuse you of being "unpatriotic" for daring to question anything.Maybe [MENTION=33253]JC Footy Genius[/MENTION] has the answer. Good to see the Brexiteers getting all their ducks in a row
To be fair, our dear NSC Brexiteers seem as united and as capable of instilling confidence in our position as the cabinet.
Out of interest, what's your preferred solution to Ireland [MENTION=21401]pastafarian[/MENTION] [MENTION=1365]Westdene Seagull[/MENTION] and [MENTION=33253]JC Footy Genius[/MENTION]
It's a fair question and not a straight forward answer. As yet I've not seen anyone define what a hard border is. After all, try entering mainland UK via any port or airport and you are subject to checks. For me it should be a semi-hard border between NI & Eire. Freight should be pre-registered and checked if the registration doesn't match and normal citizen traffic allowed through unhindered. Normal checks, as currently are in place, used on the mainland.
Yep, definitely miles out of your depth, resorting to this absolute shìte. What a tosser you are. Come back when you've served your country like she has you utter plum.
The GFA is immovable, we signed an agreement. If WE want to change the status quo, WE have to find a solution that doesn't break that agreement.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
Desperation.
- Jul 10, 2003
- 25,808
Thanks for the answer. So you are going for two borders, Ireland/NI and NI/Rest of Britain. It would be interesting to see how you would get Ireland and the DUP on board with this as I suspect they would both say 'it's the worst of both worlds' and block it. I can't see any solution being acceptable to all parties outside of the/a customs union and all that entails.
This issue has been there since before the vote (indeed it was bought up in the campaigning) but it just got kicked into the long grass for as long as possible.
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