[Politics] Brexit

GT49er · Mar 31, 2017

Kinky Gerbils said:
So what you are suggesting is if the EU and ourselves don't agree on a deal, we will withdraw our security forces.

So if we get wind of a potential terror attack on Paris, we won't do anything?

Just let people die?

You are clearly forgetting about Interpol, the international organisation with far wider membership than Europol, which has been going a lot longer than the EU - and of which we are still a member. And no, I'm not suggesting we don't do a deal. It has been made clear that we want a deal; the EU want us to be in Europol too, so unless they do something incredibly stupid, a deal on Europol will be made. It's called negotiation.

And as for deliberately not warning one of our allies - in the EU or out of the EU - of the imminent danger of a terrorist attack - sorry, that's absolute bollocks. If you'll forgive me for saying so (though I'm pretty sure you won't be able to), that is sounding like something that Project Fear wish they'd cooked up.

Billy the Fish · Mar 31, 2017

Driver8 said:
We are threatening to withdraw our security cooperation instead.

Whoever expects this to be plain sailing is deluded. The EU hold most the aces.

Of course it won't be plain sailing, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of some remain supporters on this thread.

Kinky Gerbil · Mar 31, 2017

GT49er said:
You are clearly forgetting about Interpol, the international organisation with far wider membership than Europol, which has been going a lot longer than the EU - and of which we are still a member. And no, I'm not suggesting we don't do a deal. It has been made clear that we want a deal; the EU want us to be in Europol too, so unless they do something incredibly stupid, a deal on Europol will be made. It's called negotiation.

And as for deliberately not warning one of our allies - in the EU or out of the EU - of the imminent danger of a terrorist attack - sorry, that's absolute bollocks. If you'll forgive me for saying so (though I'm pretty sure you won't be able to), that is sounding like something that Project Fear wish they'd cooked up.

"It's a bargaining chip"

Even mentioning security is a ridiculous idea.

Call it project fear if you want (it's fact as it's happened) we mentioned it and used it as a threat, which is worse than anything the EU have done so far.

No matter what happens even if we walk away with no deal this should not be an issue, I can't believe people are OK with this given what has happened recently no matter which side of the fence you sit.

It's put us on the back foot from the start.

beorhthelm · Mar 31, 2017

Kinky Gerbils said:
Call it project fear if you want (it's fact as it's happened) we mentioned it and used it as a threat, which is worse than anything the EU have done so far.

no, its mentioned and some have intpreted it as a threat. honestly, you think it would have been ok not to mention security? "UK threaten to withdraw all security coorperation after failing to mention security..." would be the headline. the actual text is saying theres more to this forth coming agreement than economics. the irony is, both policing and military security cooperation with europe occur outside the scope of EU, involvement in interpol and NATO carry on, and intelligence sharing is mostly off the record anyway.

Driver8 · Mar 31, 2017

beorhthelm said:
no, its mentioned and some have intpreted it as a threat. honestly, you think it would have been ok not to mention security? "UK threaten to withdraw all security coorperation after failing to mention security..." would be the headline. the actual text is saying theres more to this forth coming agreement than economics. the irony is, both policing and military security cooperation with europe occur outside the scope of EU, involvement in interpol and NATO carry on, and intelligence sharing is mostly off the record anyway.

We could have mentioned security and confirmed that cooperation would not be affected by the negotiations.

Publius Ovidius · Mar 31, 2017

SeagullinExile said:
Well then. The EU begins to show its true colours today. Just like the mafia, once in always in, and woe betide anyone who tries to escape!

Not the sort of club I want to be a member of thank you.

What the hell did you expect? They would roll over and say " ok, you want to leave, but in spite of all the the other 27 countries, you can have free trade, tariff free, barrier free trade?"

Blimey

Triggaaar · Mar 31, 2017

The Clamp said:
I think you have misunderstood the meaning of "anyone" in my sentence. I meant it in the same context BB meant it, to mean "everyone".

I know that's what you meant, but that doesn't make it right. But it's not correct in the sentence you wrote. "I never hurt everyone" doesn't mean "I never hurt anyone".

It makes much more sense if you hear it rather than type it.

That's true and it's because the way you say it can make it sounds like you were quoting someone, but to do so in written form you need to use quotation marks or equivalent and you didn't.

However you have already admitted you didn't read the original post so I can see why you have become confused.

I didn't know what you meant because you wrote it incorrectly, as I've been saying this whole time.

Anyhow, I can't explain it any other way so I'm just going to have to live with you thinking I'm wrong.

You don't need to explain it, I know what you meant, you meant to quote BB, but you didn't, which is why your post was wrong.

pastafarian · Mar 31, 2017

Kinky Gerbils said:
"It's a bargaining chip"

Even mentioning security is a ridiculous idea.

Call it project fear if you want (it's fact as it's happened) we mentioned it and used it as a threat, which is worse than anything the EU have done so far.

No matter what happens even if we walk away with no deal this should not be an issue, I can't believe people are OK with this given what has happened recently no matter which side of the fence you sit.

It's put us on the back foot from the start.

You are being utterly ridiculous now.
It is not a threat at all, you and others have chosen to see it that way. Its simply laying out the cold truths,If the EU do not want us being part of EU security agencies this will have consequences. The sharing of information and data between the EU security agencies is set out in law, if we are out of them there is no legal basis on which you can share the information and go through defined procedures.Its not legally possible. We still have separate agreements which the major non EU formed agencies within Europe and elsewhere so to ask are we just going to let people die is absurd.
we have been very clear, it is in all our interests to carry on sharing, The EU playing hardball on this issue is a mistake.
And why wouldnt you talk about security? Its rather important isnt it?

Baldseagull · Mar 31, 2017

Billy the Fish said:
So the EU is using Gib as a bargaining chip. If it was the UK doing that, there would be outcry on this thread from from every one of the usual suspects.

It isn't quite like that though, Spain is using Brexit as a lever to push the issue of it's claim to Gibraltar. The EU has a member that is in dispute over territory, with what will be an ex member. The EU would much rather there was not this added complication, but when push comes to shove, they will of course favour their member, over the ex member.

JC Footy Genius · Mar 31, 2017

Driver8 said:
We are threatening to withdraw our security cooperation instead.

Whoever expects this to be plain sailing is deluded. The EU hold most the aces.

No, we are simply reminding the EU side how important our contributions are in providing security for Europe. Be it Crime, Terrorism, Military or Intelligence our input is vital. As someone said on a program recently the EU has Putin's Russia to the East, Erdogan's Turkey threatening to turn the migrant tap back on, numerous problems to the South across the med and for the first time a US president who views the EU with disdain.

As Tony Bloom will tell you Aces often get cracked.

Baldseagull · Mar 31, 2017

pastafarian said:
You are being utterly ridiculous now.
It is not a threat at all, you and others have chosen to see it that way. Its simply laying out the cold truths,If the EU do not want us being part of EU security agencies this will have consequences. The sharing of information and data between the EU security agencies is set out in law, if we are out of them there is no legal basis on which you can share the information and go through defined procedures.Its not legally possible. We still have separate agreements which the major non EU formed agencies within Europe and elsewhere so to ask are we just going to let people die is absurd.
we have been very clear, it is in all our interests to carry on sharing, The EU playing hardball on this issue is a mistake.
And why wouldnt you talk about security? Its rather important isnt it?

Yes very clear, Theresa May referenced security half a dozen times in her Dear Don letter. Whether you or I see that as a veiled threat, or a reminder of an important common interest, is less important than how it comes across in the EU. It seems that it has come across badly.

JC Footy Genius · Apr 1, 2017

***BREAKING NEWS***

A new poll shows an overwhelming majority believe the UK can prosper as a fully Independent Nation just like the vast Majority of countries around the world.

In other News

Tim Farron resigns confirming he has a new role as an EU Commissioner.

BadFish · Apr 1, 2017

JC Footy Genius said:
***BREAKING NEWS***

A new poll shows an overwhelming majority believe the UK can prosper as a fully Independent Nation just like the vast Majority of countries around the world.

In other News

Tim Farron resigns confirming he has a new role as an EU Commissioner.

It's time for everyone to get on board and make it happen.

Now all you need is a decent government to vote in and over see it.

cheshunt seagull · Apr 1, 2017

Kinky Gerbils said:
"It's a bargaining chip"

Even mentioning security is a ridiculous idea.

Call it project fear if you want (it's fact as it's happened) we mentioned it and used it as a threat, which is worse than anything the EU have done so far.

No matter what happens even if we walk away with no deal this should not be an issue, I can't believe people are OK with this given what has happened recently no matter which side of the fence you sit.

It's put us on the back foot from the start.

Looking back at this thread over the months security has consistently been used by leavers as a trump card. Liberal snowflakes with their concerns for human rights and love of multi-culturism don’t care about the safety of our people as much as we do; we piously claim the higher morale ground. It now appears the politicians leading this process do not see this in quite the same absolute terms; security has now been placed within the scope of political negotiations. There is no reason for it being referred to in these communications if the plan was to be business as usual; in such cases the agencies would have continued to work together as usual and address any technical issues around EU membership in a business-like manner. Such is the desperation of May, Davies etc that the country which sees the liberation of Europe in WWII as part of its national identity is now raising the possibility that the security of Europe is a bargaining chip.
The other big issue for leavers was parliamentary sovereignty and this week has also seen this administration announce emergency powers to curtail the role of parliament in the legislative purpose.
If it wasn’t so alarming and dangerous (particularly for anyone with any knowledge of history) the irony of this all would actually be funny.

East Preston Gull · Apr 1, 2017

Driver8 said:
We are threatening to withdraw our security cooperation instead.

Whoever expects this to be plain sailing is deluded. The EU hold most the aces.

This defeatist, EU holds all the cards is complete bollocks.
The EU makes nothing but laws and regulations. They don't sell anything but ideas and dreams.
The nation states make the money and this mafia just creams off some " protection money"

We are the second biggest economy in Europe and a major player in this so called free market.

The German manufacturing sector and the UK financial services sector will determine our continued trading with Europe, not those beurocratic bean counters.

This whole rotten corruption racket was, is and will be the worst experiment in political Union since the Ukrainians and Russians decided to marry in 1922.

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

Herr Tubthumper · Apr 1, 2017

East Preston Gull said:
This defeatist, EU holds all the cards is complete bollocks.
The EU makes nothing but laws and regulations. They don't sell anything but ideas and dreams.
The nation states make the money and this mafia just creams off some " protection money"

We are the second biggest economy in Europe and a major player in this so called free market.

The German manufacturing sector and the UK financial services sector will determine our continued trading with Europe, not those beurocratic bean counters.

This whole rotten corruption racket was, is and will be the worst experiment in political Union since the Ukrainians and Russians decided to marry in 1922.

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

Yawn

heathgate · Apr 1, 2017

Herr Tubthumper said:
Yawn

Another typical passive aggressive response from NSC's favourite overseas lefty. So his points are deemed soporific??... or does it actually say more about your obviously limited attention span?

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Herr Tubthumper · Apr 1, 2017

heathgate said:
Another typical passive aggressive response from NSC's favourite overseas lefty. So his points are deemed soporific??... or does it actually say more about your obviously limited attention span?

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Yawn

East Preston Gull · Apr 1, 2017

Herr Tubthumper said:
Yawn

Maybe you could have just yawned in private and not bothered to type a response. Less tiring for you

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

sir albion · Apr 1, 2017

East Preston Gull said:
This defeatist, EU holds all the cards is complete bollocks.
The EU makes nothing but laws and regulations. They don't sell anything but ideas and dreams.
The nation states make the money and this mafia just creams off some " protection money"

We are the second biggest economy in Europe and a major player in this so called free market.

The German manufacturing sector and the UK financial services sector will determine our continued trading with Europe, not those beurocratic bean counters.

This whole rotten corruption racket was, is and will be the worst experiment in political Union since the Ukrainians and Russians decided to marry in 1922.

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

Very much this its astonishing how controlled European countries are by Brussels.....So sad that many countries will never escape this organisation that reaps the money and fines you for a good economy and also looks to charge you 60 billion for leaving :lol:

You couldn't make it up and if anything they should give us a big fat rebate for leaving as we've paid in shit loads

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