[Technology] Solar roof panels - wise investment?

Arthritic Toe · Mar 14, 2018

The sales people seem to have been particularly active in my area. They don't seem to care whether they are appropriately located or not. Some poor schmuck down the road from me has them on a north-east facing roof...

Shropshire Seagull · Mar 14, 2018

Arthritic Toe said:
The sales people seem to have been particularly active in my area. They don't seem to care whether they are appropriately located or not. Some poor schmuck down the road from me has them on a north-east facing roof...

Can you be sure it was the sales team? My experience is they know their stuff.
Might be the scaffolders set up wrong side? My money would be on the scaffolder been dumber than a solar panel salesman.

That aside, surely the resident would have questioned, either a) the proposal citing N/W facing roof or b) scaffolders putting up scaffolding on the N/W "dark side" of the property or c) the install team fitting to dark side of the roof.

I'd not want to blame anyone without more info, but the idiot in the middle [schmuck as you call them] is the biggest fool.
Solar is a sizable investment and as the saying goes: "A fool and his money are easily parted" - this looks to be a good example ....

Billy the Fish · Mar 14, 2018

I was lucky enough to move into a house that had them installed in 2012 when the FIT rate was higher at about 21p/kWh. The previous owner paid £9k for a 4kWp array and it makes about £900 a year on a south facing roof.

The current FIT I think is only about 4p/kWh so make sure you do your sums correctly when you work out how long it will take for them to pay for themselves.

kingcole · Mar 14, 2018

Shropshire Seagull said:
I've look at these in the past and decided against. However, a recent cold-call bought a chap round that thoroughly explained how it all works - it would be wrong to call him a salesman, he wasn't at all pushy and basically laid out the financial model.

He did a quick survey of the roof, pitch angle, direction, available surface area and surmised a 4Kw 14 panel solution. With a couple of extra gadgets, cost £9.5k. He did some estimates based on previous energy bill annual consumption which indicated I would have return on the £9.5k in just under 10 years. A key fact in his analysis was that over the last 10 years energy costs had risen by an average of 6.5% and did I think, for the next 10 years, it would be higher, lower, or about the same? Bit like guessing house values or interest rates, but I thought probably about the same.

In terms of financing, the company [Project Solar] were able to offer a "deal" @ 9.5% over 5 years [expensive] but also suggested it could be added to your mortgage as a home improvement at probably 2%-3% over a payback period of your choice.

Anyway, the sums looked to stack up - have any of the great NSC considered Solar panels? And did you buy, defer or decide against [please share your reasoning].

All i can offer is my own expereience and my own one makes the proposal offered to you seem very expensive.

We are just entering out 5th year of having our panels. Our system is also a 4KW system on the roof of our 3 storey house. I make this point as scafoliding would be more expensive.

Back them, before the panels supposedly got cheap, our entire system was £5500 + VAT (5%).

I got the benefit of a feed in tariff that begun at about 20p (I missed the higher rate by a few months) and I also benefit from the export tariff. We don’t have an export meter but it’s deemed we export half of what we generate.

Our bills did come down by a lot. Certainly more than half in the summer.

In these 5 years, our initial investment has already been recouped by the FIT and generation taririfs, let alone what we saved on electricity.

We can look forward to another 20 years of index linked tax free returns.

We have never cleaned our panels and they are peforming as well now as when they were installed.

We did have some inital small leaks though.

Hope this helps

Bansko Seagull · Mar 14, 2018

We installed a 4kw system in 2015 for about £6k. We get the export tariff even though we convert all our electricity into heating our water. We are very pleased with the system despite the teething problems when our converter didn't work. It's the way to go.

Peter Ward · Mar 14, 2018

I am waiting for the advent of combined solar / window glazing to invest any doh I might stll have. A world wide, multimillion pound invention that could resolve the world's domestic energy needs and it can't be far off.

drew · Mar 14, 2018

Here's my two pennyworths.

Had panels installed in Oct 2011 so got in at one of the highest rates, I get just over 50p per kwh generated. Plus 3.93p for 50% of what we generate (the export rate). System cost £10k. We currently get payments from the Government (ie all of you) of about £1800 per year. We also get savings on our electric as we use what we generate during the day, eg washing, drying etc.

We've got 18 panels with a 4kw system. Our roof is SW facing.

System has more than paid for itself in in the 6 full years we have had it.

IMPORTANT ADVICE

As good as the deal you have been offered, get alternative quotes. I was getting three quotes at the time however one salesman found himself in Reading (postcode RG) at the time of our proposed meeting instead of Burgess Hill (RH). They were binned. However, a friend found out we were getting them and recommended a company they had used, PDP in Burgess Hill (literally about a mile from our door). Got a quote from them and they matched the lowest plus agreed to install a new consumer unit and check the electrical system (the PV system worked out at £10k).

If I was you I'd get three quotes (I would recommend one of them is PDP but not sure they'd travel as far as Telford!). Would recommend asking people in houses in your area that have them as to what companies they used?

You can get some devices to make it even better, eg you can have a switch fitted that when you are not using the power elsewhere it will heat up your hot water tank with an emersion heater (assuming you don't have a combi). I haven't got that but someone I know has and he says he hasn't had his boiler heat hot water since it was fitted. There were also looking at fitting lithium batteries so the electricity you generate when you are not there is stored. Didn't go for that as at the time it was about £4k.

My personal view is that, certainly here in the south, every new home should be fitted with them. Trouble with that is the power companies would lose a lot of money.

With regard to what Nicko31 was saying, yes there is loads you can do to conserve energy, eg triple glazing, better loft insulation, cavity wall etc etc but that is only saving, it is not generating and earning you money. You should still all do all of those if you can.

Pretty pink fairy · Mar 14, 2018

Great if you like pigeons shitting all over the place
regards
DR

Lincoln Imp · Mar 14, 2018

Shropshire Seagull said:
I've look at these in the past and decided against. However, a recent cold-call bought a chap round that thoroughly explained how it all works - it would be wrong to call him a salesman, he wasn't at all pushy and basically laid out the financial model.

He did a quick survey of the roof, pitch angle, direction, available surface area and surmised a 4Kw 14 panel solution. With a couple of extra gadgets, cost £9.5k. He did some estimates based on previous energy bill annual consumption which indicated I would have return on the £9.5k in just under 10 years. A key fact in his analysis was that over the last 10 years energy costs had risen by an average of 6.5% and did I think, for the next 10 years, it would be higher, lower, or about the same? Bit like guessing house values or interest rates, but I thought probably about the same.

In terms of financing, the company [Project Solar] were able to offer a "deal" @ 9.5% over 5 years [expensive] but also suggested it could be added to your mortgage as a home improvement at probably 2%-3% over a payback period of your choice.

Anyway, the sums looked to stack up - have any of the great NSC considered Solar panels? And did you buy, defer or decide against [please share your reasoning].

A highly-respected Sussex estate agent and valuer once told me that the most reliable ways of knocking between £10,000 and £50,000 off the value of my house was to install either solar panels or upvc double glazing. I believe him, but it all depends on the house I suppose, and where it is.

drew · Mar 14, 2018

Lincoln Imp said:
A highly-respected Sussex estate agent and valuer once told me that the most reliable ways of knocking between £10,000 and £50,000 off the value of my house was to install either solar panels or upvc double glazing. I believe him, but it all depends on the house I suppose, and where it is.

If you live in a listed property or the appeal is it's chocolate box appearance then of course but the majority of people don't live in those properties.

Audax · Mar 14, 2018

drew said:
If you live in a listed property or the appeal is it's chocolate box appearance then of course but the majority of people don't live in those properties.

Also, as time goes by and more people have them, the bias against them will fall away.

I believe part of the valuation drop issue is also due to schmucks who got duped into renting their roof space instead of buying the panels in full. The rental option is a bad, bad way to go.

Definitely recommend getting at least 3 quotes. When we got ours done a few years back we used Paynes, who are local to the Uckfield area. Considerably cheaper than what you've been quoted.

OzMike · Mar 15, 2018

Oxy McFloppie-Tish said:
Do you run air-con during the summer?

Yep and the pool pump.
We organise it so that all these things are all running whilst the sun is shining, on timers etc. along with the washing machine and the dishwasher.
The electricity generated by the solar is used to run these devices and the rest goes back into the grid for credit.

cloud · Mar 15, 2018

Do solar panels mean you're living inside a giant Faraday cage?

Deleted member 2719 · Mar 15, 2018

Papa Lazarou said:
I would probably have them if our house faced the right way (we're the Northern side of a semi), but we don't.

If I was diving in now I'd explore newer solar technology like those propose by Tesla which look like normal roof tiles, as the currently available ones aren't discrete or pretty.

With solar technology moving on a pace and hopefully storage technology improving I'm sure we'll get to a point soon where new houses should all be fitted with solar (photovoltaic and water) tech, plus all the other interesting heat exchange / harvesting options.

Robert Llewellyn (Kryten) is a strong advocate of solar, and it's worth reading his views.

https://www.solarpowerportal.co.uk/...r_batteries_evs_and_turning_his_village_green

Some excellent points Papa, however you can't come on to a thread which links we weather without giving us some sunshine stats/month for lets say:

Chichester
Worthing
Brighton
Eastbourne
Midhurst
Crawley
Haywards Heath
Crowborough

Please. :thumbsup:

Goldstone1976 · Mar 15, 2018

cloud said:
Do solar panels mean you're living inside a giant Faraday cage?

That’s another, often overlooked, benefit. You save on tinfoil purchases.

Papa Lazarou · Mar 15, 2018

Mouldy Boots said:
Some excellent points Papa, however you can't come on to a thread which links we weather without giving us some sunshine stats/month for lets say:

Chichester
Worthing
Brighton
Eastbourne
Midhurst
Crawley
Haywards Heath
Crowborough

Please.

I've found this which shows the average annual insolation across the UK

And this site has a calculator of solar irradiance for selected locations by month. Brighton's on there, and to be honest there won't be much different between Brighton and other Sussex location on average...

http://solarelectricityhandbook.com/solar-irradiance.html

Tricky Dicky · Mar 15, 2018

10 years seems like a very long time to get your money back.

Why do not they make these panels to fit more into the look of a roof - I think the current designs look awful. I wouldn't buy a house with them on.

Deleted member 2719 · Mar 15, 2018

Papa Lazarou said:
I've found this which shows the average annual insolation across the UK

View attachment 95163

And this site has a calculator of solar irradiance for selected locations by month. Brighton's on there, and to be honest there won't be much different between Brighton and other Sussex location on average...

http://solarelectricityhandbook.com/solar-irradiance.html

Sorry I got the impression you may have a set of your own figures!

I was expecting the South west side of Sussex to get more sun as, generally we are brighter people.

There appears to be an advantage living in Brighton to Crawley in the figures below, Solar advantage..............but didn't we always know that!

Deleted member 2719 · Mar 15, 2018

Tricky Dicky said:
10 years seems like a very long time to get your money back.

Why do not they make these panels to fit more into the look of a roof - I think the current designs look awful. I wouldn't buy a house with them on.

It surprises me when people do not buy a house because of the outside look of the house, as how often do you actually have to look at the outside, and will it really affect your living standards

Serious question is there a really a reason that it matters so much

Papa Lazarou · Mar 15, 2018

I would expect coastal locations to have better solar insolation / irradiance figures than inland, as in the summer, when convection kicks in you get those days where it clouds over inland but stays clear and sunny on the coast. This is particularly common down here, as the average prevailing wind is SW, so slightly off the sea, generating a clear zone right along the coast where cloud hasn't formed.

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