[Politics] Brexit

vegster · Jan 18, 2017

pastafarian said:
Onwards and upwards Soulman

Lets make Great Britain Great again......we can do this,great workforce,great companies,great visions......lets believe in Global Great Britain again

Have you not noticed the mess we are in at the moment, massive cuts to social care and welfare, education underfunded, poverty and homelessness on the increase, household debt back to 2008 levels. Real wage growth minimal, the rise of Food Banks, creaking underfunded rail and road infrastructure.....?
And now guess what? In order to make Britain Great Again we will be asked to work harder still and get more " competitive " to take it on the chin and show how great the British worker is at rolling up our sleeves and working hard to get on....for the usual empty promises.... Lord help us.

Herr Tubthumper · Jan 18, 2017

vegster said:
Have you not noticed the mess we are in at the moment, massive cuts to social care and welfare, education underfunded, poverty and homelessness on the increase, household debt back to 2008 levels. Real wage growth minimal, the rise of Food Banks, creaking underfunded rail and road infrastructure.....?
And now guess what? In order to make Britain Great Again we will be asked to work harder still and get more " competitive " to take it on the chin and show how great the British worker is at rolling up our sleeves and working hard to get on....for the usual empty promises.... Lord help us.

It's the Tory way. Champion the hard working British man and make him work even harder.

simmo · Jan 18, 2017

abc said:
I was a passionate Remainer but I actually agree, today was indeed 'fantastic'. I thought May's approach was positive and realistic and I have a genuine feeling of excitement. I still wish the referendum result was Remain and I have many concerns but the decision was made and now I wish EVERYONE would simply support the PM and say 'how can we help you get the best deal for Britain?'. If that happened then who knows what we could achieve.

Could not agree more. I voted remain, but I was in the minority and the democratic will of the people has spoken and that supercedes all, so be it. We are going to leave.

Get on with it Mrs May and get the best deal for Britain and our people. If you do get a great deal, you will be one of our greatest PM's, if you don't you will be one of our worst.....

studio150 · Jan 18, 2017

As we are now Global Britain not foget that Gibraltar is subject to Brexit

http://chronicle.gi/2017/01/govts-stark-

sussex seagull · Jan 18, 2017

Perhaps we need a new poll, as after Mrs May's speech it seems she may know what she is doing.

studio150 · Jan 18, 2017

Will Brexit= Global Britain-Scotland-Northern Ireland-Gibraltar.

I doubt all 3 would cast off but the main soundbite from Scotland yesterday was that a 2nd independence referendum was more likely than very likely so almost a certainty and maybe the prospect of the post Brexit world is enough to push the vote in favour of leaving the UK.

studio150 · Jan 18, 2017

sussex seagull said:
Perhaps we need a new poll, as after Mrs May's speech it seems she may know what she is doing.

Yes she knows what she is doing but does it fit her goal of the best deal for Britain?

larus · Jan 18, 2017

Anyone seen the disastrous job figures today, now that we're suffering the full effects of the Post Brexit Vote Armageddon.

The poor kids today - they just won't know what unemployment is. I guess we could send them on trips to those wonderful EU "all in it together" countries of Spain, Greece, Italy or Portugal to appreciate the benefits of the EU/Euro.

UK unemployment fell by 52,000 to 1.6 million in three months to November, official figures showed.
The jobless rate was steady at an 11-year low of 4.8%, in line with forecasts, the Office for National Statistics said.
The employment rate was steady at a record 74.5%, while wage growth picked up pace.
Average earnings increased by 2.8% in the year to November, 0.2% up on the previous month.
However, the number of people in work slipped by 9,000 to just over 31.8 million, the ONS said.
It was the second consecutive report to show a decline in the number of people in work - the first back-to-back fall since mid-2015.
The claimant count fell by 10,100 in December to 797,800.

* Awaits the usual zero-hour, low wages, etc. vitriol from the usual suspects*.

I'm not saying everything is perfect within the wealth distribution, but try not to confuse wealth inequality (which has been and is still getting worse) with the impact on the economy of Brexit.

Also, for those of a slightly slower mentality, please can you note the average wage rise of 2.8% and compare this with the inflation rate of 1.6%. Real wages are rising, so more good news.

Soulman · Jan 18, 2017

larus said:
Anyone seen the disastrous job figures today, now that we're suffering the full effects of the Post Brexit Vote Armageddon.

The poor kids today - they just won't know what unemployment is. I guess we could send them on trips to those wonderful EU "all in it together" countries of Spain, Greece, Italy or Portugal to appreciate the benefits of the EU/Euro.

UK unemployment fell by 52,000 to 1.6 million in three months to November, official figures showed.
The jobless rate was steady at an 11-year low of 4.8%, in line with forecasts, the Office for National Statistics said.
The employment rate was steady at a record 74.5%, while wage growth picked up pace.
Average earnings increased by 2.8% in the year to November, 0.2% up on the previous month.
However, the number of people in work slipped by 9,000 to just over 31.8 million, the ONS said.
It was the second consecutive report to show a decline in the number of people in work - the first back-to-back fall since mid-2015.
The claimant count fell by 10,100 in December to 797,800.

* Awaits the usual zero-hour, low wages, etc. vitriol from the usual suspects*.

I'm not saying everything is perfect within the wealth distribution, but try not to confuse wealth inequality (which has been and is still getting worse) with the impact on the economy of Brexit.

Also, for those of a slightly slower mentality, please can you note the average wage rise of 2.8% and compare this with the inflation rate of 1.6%. Real wages are rising, so more good news.

You have to spoil it don't you. Some remainers are now prepared to accept things and get on with it. The poster who advised us to buy euros before 11-45 because of the collapse of sterling, has now different scary prophecies for today. Then we have another poster who is fearful of Scotland, Gibraltar and NI abandoning ship thus changing course and heading on another direction. Then we have HT letting us know who the Tories look after whilst languishing in Germany.
Twas a decent day yesterday and new scare tactics today it seems.

Herr Tubthumper · Jan 18, 2017

Soulman said:
Then we have HT letting us know who the Tories look after whilst languishing in Germany.

Why don't you actually challenge the details of my post instead of dismissing it because of my location? My location doesn't invalidate my point at all. But, if you really do believe it does then I'm all ears. Go on, stick it to me....please.

Mellotron · Jan 18, 2017

So, just to confirm, (unelected) Theresa May is now aggressively pursuing a course of action that about 19% of the UK actually want. How can anyone think that is a good idea?

studio150 · Jan 18, 2017

Mellotron said:
So, just to confirm, (unelected) Theresa May is now aggressively pursuing a course of action that about 19% of the UK actually want. How can anyone think that is a good idea?

But they do.

As an example after the speech yesterday a man was interviewed about what he was now looking foward to. Included in his response was being able to ring his doctor and get an appointment within a week.
Not sure how numbers are going to reduce to achieve that unless we are deporting or stopping medical care for those currently within the UK.

Moshe Gariani · Jan 18, 2017

larus said:
Also, for those of a slightly slower mentality, please can you note the average wage rise of 2.8% and compare this with the inflation rate of 1.6%. Real wages are rising, so more good news.

For those of an even slower mentality, please can you note the disparity in average wage rises for the already wealthy compared to those on average or low incomes.

Please also note the steady destruction of previous gains in living standards achieved for the worst off in our society.

Lincoln Imp · Jan 18, 2017

GoldWithFalmer said:
You said you don't agree with a first past the post system,yet Brexit was not and you're still unhappy with the result,which if it was a first past the post referendum would have given Leave a larger margin of victory.....or have i totally misunderstood your earlier post.

Maybe i have got i wrong,that is more than possible.

Sorry for the delay in replying. I've been avoiding this thread for a while.

I can understand you being confused if you thought my dislike of first-past-the-post was based on the fact that it fails to deliver the outcome I want.

That is not the case. I find it appalling that the number of constituencies won by UKIP in 2015 bears no relation to the number of votes its candidates received. UKIP should have many more MPs in the present House of Commons.. The same injustice has befallen the LibDems for years and years of course.

First-past-the-post is a gerrymandered fix engineered by the two big parties than benefit from it. It increases the gulf between Parliament and the people and it is reasonable to argue that this gulf was one of the reasons for the visceral anger with the system that led to the 23 June result.

The normal argument in favour of FPTP is that it leads to clear and certain outcomes. It doesn't. Both the Labour and Conservative parties are riven by fundamental internal disagreements - first past the post tends to remove the conflicts and fights from public view, that's all. And that's another argument against it.

The fact that the referendum figures would have been different if a constituency-based FPTP system was employed simply underlines the injustice of it. The only people who support it are those who think a result they agree with is more important than natural democracy. That's fine, until they start lecturing others on the subject.

CHAPPERS · Jan 18, 2017

Moshe Gariani said:
For those of an even slower mentality, please can you note the disparity in average wage rises for the already wealthy compared to those on average or low incomes.

Please also note the steady destruction of previous gains in living standards achieved for the worst off in our society.

Public sector pay increases limited to 1%. Nurses, firefighters, teaches all being paid less in real terms.

GT49er · Jan 18, 2017

vegster said:
Have you not noticed the mess we are in at the moment, massive cuts to social care and welfare, education underfunded, poverty and homelessness on the increase, household debt back to 2008 levels. Real wage growth minimal, the rise of Food Banks, creaking underfunded rail and road infrastructure.....?

And just tell me, to make it clear for me, did all this come to pass when we were in the EU or out of it?

GT49er · Jan 18, 2017

Mellotron said:
So, just to confirm, (unelected) Theresa May is now aggressively pursuing a course of action that about 19% of the UK actually want. How can anyone think that is a good idea?

Even your maths is way out!

narly101 · Jan 18, 2017

abc said:
I was a passionate Remainer but I actually agree, today was indeed 'fantastic'. I thought May's approach was positive and realistic and I have a genuine feeling of excitement. I still wish the referendum result was Remain and I have many concerns but the decision was made and now I wish EVERYONE would simply support the PM and say 'how can we help you get the best deal for Britain?'. If that happened then who knows what we could achieve.

Very much representative of me as well.

narly101 · Jan 18, 2017

Herr Tubthumper said:
It's the Tory way. Champion the hard working British man and make him work even harder.

As opposed to the socialist way, do as little as possible and sponge off the workers.

larus · Jan 18, 2017

Moshe Gariani said:
For those of an even slower mentality, please can you note the disparity in average wage rises for the already wealthy compared to those on average or low incomes.

Please also note the steady destruction of previous gains in living standards achieved for the worst off in our society.

As I said in my original post, I'm not saying things are fair, but I get pissed off when the Remainers try to link everything to Brexit, after all, this is a Brexit thread and we were warned of "The End Of Days" if we dared to vote leave. Well, we did and the economic news has been very positive since then.

Social injustice is not the fault of Brexit - or are we saying that it is now?

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