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[Football] Discuss our current strategy for defending corners....



Blackadder

Brighton Bhuna Boy
Jul 6, 2003
16,077
Haywards Heath
leave Jose up.
 


Bladders

Twats everywhere
Jun 22, 2012
13,672
The Troubadour
Bruno looking at the ball and in the direction the ball is being delivered from would be a good start, rather than instead wrestling the player he's marking
 


Surf's Up

Well-known member
Jul 17, 2011
10,147
Here
We're also shit at taking them. So there must be a correlation, CH said in an interview after WBA that we've done more work on corners this past week than the whole of the season (or words to that effect) but, if in training, the corners coming in are shit, how are we going to learn to defend a decent corner?

If that's correct it is a pretty damming indictment of his training regime. We were always going to struggle this year playing at the margins, so you'd have thought the coaching staff would've wanted to maximise our effectiveness wherever they could and set pieces is a good place to start.
 


Papa Lazarou

Living in a De Zerbi wonderland
Jul 7, 2003
18,838
Worthing
Bruno looking at the ball and in the direction the ball is being delivered from would be a good start, rather than instead wrestling the player he's marking

But he's not very good in the air, so he's doing what he feels is most effective. You are right though :)
 


Papa Lazarou

Living in a De Zerbi wonderland
Jul 7, 2003
18,838
Worthing
I'd love to see us try 3 players upfield to a degree at some stage.

Not all on the halfway line, but perhaps 1 up there (Knockaert), plus one each 3/4 of the way to half way, but wide. How would the opposition try to defend that?
 




Bladders

Twats everywhere
Jun 22, 2012
13,672
The Troubadour
But he's not very good in the air, so he's doing what he feels is most effective. You are right though :)

Its really working well :lolol:

Standing on one of the posts might be a better option, or looking at the ball, or even just picking his nose.
 


Bladders

Twats everywhere
Jun 22, 2012
13,672
The Troubadour
I'd love to see us try 3 players upfield to a degree at some stage.

Not all on the halfway line, but perhaps 1 up there (Knockaert), plus one each 3/4 of the way to half way, but wide. How would the opposition try to defend that?

I'd leave all 10 on the halfway line. Catch them all offside as the corner is taken. :moo:
 


Papa Lazarou

Living in a De Zerbi wonderland
Jul 7, 2003
18,838
Worthing
Its really working well :lolol:

Standing on one of the posts might be a better option, or looking at the ball, or even just picking his nose.

Or being one of the players OUTSIDE of the box?
 




Giraffe

VERY part time moderator
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patreon
Aug 8, 2005
26,454
I'm not sure whether it is a recent thing or what we have been doing all season but it seems that at West Brom Duffy was used as a free man to just go and head the ball. I.e. he was not marking a man. If we have been doing this all season then we should stop because our best headerer should be on their best headerer? If it's new then maybe it needs working on some more.

A lot though comes down to individual discipline. Bong should not have lost his man for the second for example.
 


Arthritic Toe

Well-known member
Nov 25, 2005
2,390
Swindon
We also never score from any ourselves - and we should do, given the aerial power we have at our disposal. For some reason we've got the tactics all wrong with corners at both ends. Maybe we could recruit a short term set piece coach.

One thing I've noticed on this (and I know I've gone outside the remit of the OP somewhat), Dunk and Duffy never arrive at speed to head the ball. They are always 'already there' and if they do get their head on the ball it inevitably loops up and over the bar as they're not running onto it.
 






Bladders

Twats everywhere
Jun 22, 2012
13,672
The Troubadour
We also never score from any ourselves - and we should do, given the aerial power we have at our disposal. For some reason we've got the tactics all wrong with corners at both ends. Maybe we could recruit a short term set piece coach.

One thing I've noticed on this (and I know I've gone outside the remit of the OP somewhat), Dunk and Duffy never arrive at speed to head the ball. They are always 'already there' and if they do get their head on the ball it inevitably loops up and over the bar as they're not running onto it.

We used to do well from the long deep corners to the far post for Duffy or Dunk to head in or back across.

Had a few early in the season that went close too, but since then we just seem to hit and hope now.
 


brightonrock

Dodgy Hamstrings
Jan 1, 2008
2,482
There are two reasons we don't leave a player(s) up when defending corners.

1) Statistically, the second phase is the most dangerous from set pieces. While we're leaking goals from set pieces like a sieve at present, across all levels of football the number of goals actuallyl scored from corners is really low - we all get excited when we win one, but in reality it represents a pretty poor opportunity. Having an extra body in the box if/when a second cross comes into the box following a partial clearance, gives us a slight numerical advantage. Every team, when a ball is cleared at least partially away, will push up to try to catch a forward offside, but in doing so, they lose defensive shape and it can cause players to lose their man. In the second or two between pushing up and the ball coming back into the box, it's impossible to take stock and re-allocate a man each to mark.

2) The biggest danger from any set piece is a runner from deep - a forward with a run on a defender with a standing jump, has an advantage for spring and power on the header. By crowding the box with as many bodies as possible, it makes runners from deep less able (in theory) to get that run on a static defender through sheer traffic.

Hughton has answered this before at Fans Forums - and it's not something he's going to change. It's also a moot point that having a player up would have stopped WBA or Huddersfield from getting their goals against us in recent weeks. It was poor marking that caused those goals - not the lack of a player forward, because we didn't win the first ball to be able to make that argument. In both games we lost a runner at the front post, who flicked on to the far post where another runner was unmarked to score. At WBA it was Dunk who stopped and was caught ball watching as his man (Evans) used a blocker and ran around the back unchallenged. For the second, they dummied the near post flick by making the run but delivered to the far post, where Bong didn't get tight to Dawson, who got the run on him and beat him in the air. Leaving Izquierdo or A. N. Other up would not have stopped that.

I was at West Brom and was as frustrated as anybody else by the shambles from corners - we were lucky not to concede from another two when free headers were glanced wide or over. However, it's not as simplistic as "just leave players up" because of the two points above. If we were conceding a lot from never fully vacating the box and a half-cleared set piece coming back in at us, there'd be a valid point to discuss. But right now we aren't successfully tracking runners or winning the initial ball, so whether or not we take a defender out and put him on the half way line is utterly irrelevant. Until we get the basics right and track our men and win the first ball, we could have twenty players on the pitch and we'd still concede from corners.
 


WhingForPresident

.
NSC Patreon
Feb 23, 2009
16,025
Marlborough
I do wonder if having a 4 foot 7 goalkeeper is a part of our problem from set pieces with him being less inclined to come out to claim the ball when the cross comes in than a taller 'keeper would be. And maybe our taller players feel more need to try to protect him as they know he's not necessarily going to be able to come and claim, which puts them out of position. Not a criticism of him as such, just a theory.

fa-oversized-goals.png
 




Kalimantan Gull

Well-known member
Aug 13, 2003
12,898
Central Borneo / the Lizard
On MOTD Lampard demonstrated how we are leaving gaps in the penalty area for players to run into and attack the ball. I think both of WBA's goals were excellent but there are certainly question marks about some of the other goals we have given away (Bournemouth's second, Stoke's second and Everton's penalty (off a free-kick, not corner, but similar). Those three were all down in part or whole to Bruno which goes back to the discussion about replacing him with Schelotto
 


dejavuatbtn

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2010
7,128
Henfield
First line of defence is not to give them away. We have the third worst record for conceding (and a similarly poor record for getting them).
That said, we’ve just got to stop concentrating on wrestling players with the threat of giving away penalties (Bruno seems to be the worst culprit) and focus on marking areas, with people dedicated to attacking the ball in the various areas of the penalty box. Clearly, what we are doing isn’t working!
 


Bladders

Twats everywhere
Jun 22, 2012
13,672
The Troubadour
I do wonder if having a 4 foot 7 goalkeeper is a part of our problem from set pieces with him being less inclined to come out to claim the ball when the cross comes in than a taller 'keeper would be. And maybe our taller players feel more need to try to protect him as they know he's not necessarily going to be able to come and claim, which puts them out of position. Not a criticism of him as such, just a theory.

View attachment 93053

Did Stockdale ever come for one?

I don't remember him doing much of it, liked his line too much.
 








DarrenFreemansPerm

⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
Sep 28, 2010
17,328
Shoreham
I'm not sure whether it is a recent thing or what we have been doing all season but it seems that at West Brom Duffy was used as a free man to just go and head the ball. I.e. he was not marking a man. If we have been doing this all season then we should stop because our best headerer should be on their best headerer? If it's new then maybe it needs working on some more.

A lot though comes down to individual discipline. Bong should not have lost his man for the second for example.

West Brom was the first time I’d personally witnessed Duffy as the free man for corners. It didn’t work within 120 seconds, we didn’t take the warning and tried it again on 4 minutes. 1-0. We continued with it. Disappointing.
 



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