[Politics] Brexit

GT49er · Mar 2, 2017

beorhthelm said:
this item can be covered on day one of the negotiation if the EU want, put it number one on the agenda and agree reciprocal rights of existing members from that date. if the EU want to attach a raft of conditions, then that's their position, and if we'd promised it in the bill we have to accept them all.

Absolutely. It's in no-one's interest not to have reciprocity on this. If the EU choose to make an issue out of it, it will only alienate some of their member states, like Spain, who will want very much to keep the revenue stream from the British ex-pats. And with mutterings of discontent in several parts of Europe, that would not be in the EU's best interests.

daveinprague · Mar 2, 2017

GT49er said:
Absolutely. It's in no-one's interest not to have reciprocity on this. If the EU choose to make an issue out of it, it will only alienate some of their member states, like Spain, who will want very much to keep the revenue stream from the British ex-pats. And with mutterings of discontent in several parts of Europe, that would not be in the EU's best interests.

So, accept the amendment?

GT49er · Mar 2, 2017

daveinprague said:
So, accept the amendment?

No - that just leaves the EU to impose conditions - we need to have a free hand in the negotiations on this, not to go into the negotiations having promised what we're going to do; it's not really a negotiation then.

daveinprague · Mar 2, 2017

GT49er said:
No - that just leaves the EU to impose conditions - we need to have a free hand in the negotiations on this, not to go into the negotiations having promised what we're going to do; it's not really a negotiation then.

But it wont be in their interests not to reciprocate?

beorhthelm · Mar 2, 2017

daveinprague said:
So, accept the amendment?

and the next, and the other one...

its the purpose of the negotiations to work through the terms and conditions of exit and future relationship. its not for the enabling legislation to dictate anything other than "we are going to invoke Article 50". anything more amounts to a precondition for the brexit process.

lets put it this way, say Belgium has an issue with existing EU residents maintaining current rights, they want full freedom of movement in perpetuity for all citizens or nothing. this could block the whole of the brexit process, because we'll have it as our law to recognise their right to remain, some trouble maker could use that as an excuse to void the whole process, but as we've invoked A50, time is up and we have no deal. do you really want that? its so much simpler to have no preconditions, so that the deal arranged with Brussels is not hijacked by either leavers or remainers.

nicko31 · Mar 2, 2017

heathgate said:
Not at 5 pound and hour and living in a caravan in a farmyard in the middle of nowhere......

Drive along any rural road in Suffolk, Norfolk and Cambridgeshire.... where I went recently.... it's awash with people living in caravans and mobile homes alongside agricultural land.... poor conditions.

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You may as well chuck in Lincolnshire too to sex things up a bit. All probably saving good money trying to make a better life for themselves

GT49er · Mar 2, 2017

daveinprague said:
But it wont be in their interests not to reciprocate?

Yes, it will, but we will have our hands tied already. We will be accepting EU nationals freely in the UK, but they can then impose all sorts of restrictions if they want on British citizens, and we'll have no bargaining position.
You wouldn't want to pass an amendment saying that we definitely won't impose tariffs on imports from the EU, regardless of whatever tariffs they levy on our exports to them, would you (unless you were really stupid, of course)?

The Merry Prankster · Mar 2, 2017

heathgate said:
Thanks for that...... inarticulate.... priceless.

It's exactly Juncker and his track record that is driving this safety first approach. He has already articulated ( big word), his spiteful and vengeful side in many statements since June, why would we blithely accept that he will reciprocate any early gesture from the UK side?

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heathgate said:
No, he says make unilateral gesture, I say it would be risky to assume they will treat UK expats equally magnanimously, so keep our powder dry.

heathgate said:
No.... I hope it's one that mitigates the worst of Juncker and the EU

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.....by imitating the worst of their behaviour. Sure, that makes sense.

heathgate · Mar 2, 2017

nicko31 said:
You may as well chuck in Lincolnshire too to sex things up a bit. All probably saving good money trying to make a better life for themselves

...and living 6 to a caravan rent free and on 5 pound an hour or less really helps those jobs become accessible to anyone in the UK with a home and family to support

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Pretty pink fairy · Mar 2, 2017

daveinprague said:
This morning, I have repeatedly asked..
'but, why would the British government, be disappointed by the Lords, and seek to overturn a guarantee of EU citizens rights in the UK, following Brexit. This has nothing to do with the EU. It is about the British governments intent, post Brexit.'

Its a simple question really, and nothing to do with the EU, rather than Britains intentions regarding the rights of EU citizens residing in the UK.
The responses so far have been, it will delay the process... please haha, How long does it take to state that EU citizens in the UK will continue to have their rights protected.

why should they have their rights protected WE'RE LEAVING THE EU ,they have two options, go back home OR accept what ever is decided in the discussions which no one knows at this point in time .
regards
DR

cheshunt seagull · Mar 2, 2017

The over-riding message from recent discussions on this thread: if you plan to marry a hard-brexiter...get a prenup.

The Rivet · Mar 2, 2017

cheshunt seagull said:
The over-riding message from recent discussions on this thread: if you plan to marry a hard-brexiter...get a prenup.

Struggling with this in a small way.

Amazingly purile attempt at humour. Frightful.

Herr Tubthumper · Mar 2, 2017

cheshunt seagull said:
The over-riding message from recent discussions on this thread: if you plan to marry a hard-brexiter...get a prenup.

I wouldn't want to marry anyone significantly shorter than myself.

The Rivet · Mar 2, 2017

Herr Tubthumper said:
I wouldn't want to marry anyone significantly shorter than myself.

Why?

Lincoln Imp · Mar 2, 2017

Pretty pink fairy said:
why should they have their rights protected WE'RE LEAVING THE EU ,they have two options, go back home OR accept what ever is decided in the discussions which no one knows at this point in time .
regards
DR

Congratulations. I'm sure your views encapsulate and distill those of many Brexit supporters.

The Rivet · Mar 2, 2017

Lincoln Imp said:
Congratulations. I'm sure your views encapsulate and distill those of many Brexit supporters.

You would be wrong then but hey, you know that feeling well enough.

cunning fergus · Mar 2, 2017

daveinprague said:
Ok, there have been no verbal, or physical attacks on EU citizens in the UK and none have been reported.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ncrease-police-figures-official-a7358866.html

There are thousands of EU nationals in our prisons with convictions for serious crimes such as murder, rape etc.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ls-awaiting-deportation-from-uk-a7063026.html

Poles top the list..........British citizens need protecting too.

Herr Tubthumper · Mar 3, 2017

The Rivet said:
Why?

I'm not into little people.

larus · Mar 3, 2017

I don't get the big issue with this. The U.K. Government has stated it was willing to sort this issue out before the negotiations started, but this was rejected by the EU. But the usual idiots seem to think that the problem is with the U.K. and not the EU.

If the EU was that concerned about the uncertainty for the millions of EU/UK citizens currently living/working abroad, this issue could quite easily have been agreed. It's the EU putting the block on things, not the UK.

Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo! · Mar 3, 2017

larus said:
I don't get the big issue with this. The U.K. Government has stated it was willing to sort this issue out before the negotiations started, but this was rejected by the EU. But the usual idiots seem to think that the problem is with the U.K. and not the EU.

If the EU was that concerned about the uncertainty for the millions of EU/UK citizens currently living/working abroad, this issue could quite easily have been agreed. It's the EU putting the block on things, not the UK.

But this issue is not an EU competency (responsibility) and there is no current legal basis for it to be so; the immigration, residency requirements and status etc of non-EU citizens living, working, residing within the EU is a competency of individual member states. They each have there own rules and requirements for non-EU citizens, as does the UK.

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