General Election 2017

Lincoln Imp · Jun 27, 2017

Tubby-McFat-Fuc said:
But being such a know all, I take it you earnt a nice big wedge of the bookies by getting it correct.

That's what I most like about the English... the art of self-depreciation.

Lincoln Imp · Jun 27, 2017

Tubby-McFat-Fuc said:
Why is it?

So being able to vote through the Brexit deal, without being voted down by Labour won't be beneficial. It will be the best billion pound spent this term.

The Tories could come back with the best deal ever, and Labour would vote it down for their own gains. So best we spend an extra billion in NI and keep the Comrades votes meaningless.

You're assuming that every Conservative MP will always support the government. That might not be the case.

Tubby-McFat-Fuc · Jun 27, 2017

lawros left foot said:
well, as you won't do it to me, i'm afraid i'm going to have to do it to you. If i want a dose of right wing,infantile, bluster, i'll sign into katie hopkins twitter. It's a shamevshe doesn't make up laughable transfer rumours, but, we can't have everything in life.

check mate!

Tubby-McFat-Fuc · Jun 27, 2017

Guinness Boy said:

I see left people. Walking around like regular people. They only see what they want to see.

I take it those quotes are from this thread earlier in the year, when I said over and over I was there enjoying winding the lefties up.

Even dumb nuts could see that

lawros left foot said:
Welcome back, still having a whale of a time winding up the lefties are you,

Which is why I put my real prediction in the Prediction thread as quoted here.

I see left people.

Walking around like regular people.

THEY ONLY SEE WHAT THEY WANT TO SEE.......

THEY ONLY SEE WHAT THEY WANT TO SEE.......

THEY ONLY SEE WHAT THEY WANT TO SEE.......

You have to try harder than that sweetheart.

Tubby-McFat-Fuc · Jun 27, 2017

Guinness Boy said:
Even by your standards that's non-sensical bollocks. You literally cannot call people champagne socialists and then claim they join the Tories as soon as they come in to money. Has Lily Allen joined the Tories? Chris Hughton? Stormzy? Guy Garvey?

It'd take a lot more than a small win on the bookies for me to. But without personal revelations or bragging I'm doing just dandy thanks.

My traditional tenner went on a 40-50 Tory lead but if you search back I called a hung parliament before pretty much anyone. You might have finally plumped for 20 seats in the face of the final polls but you spent literally days writing tiresome "you lefties are going to get routed" posts.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Guinness Boy said:

I see left people. Walking around like regular people. They only see what they want to see.

I take it those quotes are from this thread earlier in the year, when I said over and over I was there enjoying winding the lefties up.

Even dumb nuts could see that

lawros left foot said:
Welcome back, still having a whale of a time winding up the lefties are you,

Which is why I put my real prediction in the Prediction thread as quoted here.

I see left people.

Walking around like regular people.

THEY ONLY SEE WHAT THEY WANT TO SEE.......

THEY ONLY SEE WHAT THEY WANT TO SEE.......

THEY ONLY SEE WHAT THEY WANT TO SEE.......

You have to try harder than that sweetheart.

Nice to see you are so concerned with my views that you posted it twice.

portslade seagull · Jun 27, 2017

Plooks said:
I don't follow. It is not a matter of Tories v labour here it is about what is right and wrong. Charging for education is wrong, no matter what end of the political spectrum you are on, it just is. It needs changing and it is embaressing and disgusting that we have fees in this country.[/QUOTE

What a load of tosh. Why should it be free for subjects that are meaningless to all apart from the scrounger oops I mean student taking them. I know a few who have been to uni and none have got jobs in which they went to uni for as the courses were so left side.

sjamesb3466 · Jun 27, 2017

Tubby-McFat-Fuc said:
Oh, a sensible post, so a sensible reply. I agree that "sensible" academic subjects should whilst maybe not completely free, certainly shouldn't cost more than a grand a year. Any subject where there is a shortage in the workplace, should be next to nothing for student. I won't argue with that.

Sorry if I went against the grain of the thread (and NSC at the moment) by trying to be reasonably sensible but thank you for an equally sensible reply.

studio150 · Jun 27, 2017

portslade seagull said:
Plooks said:

I don't follow. It is not a matter of Tories v labour here it is about what is right and wrong. Charging for education is wrong, no matter what end of the political spectrum you are on, it just is. It needs changing and it is embaressing and disgusting that we have fees in this country.[/QUOTE

What a load of tosh. Why should it be free for subjects that are meaningless to all apart from the scrounger oops I mean student taking them. I know a few who have been to uni and none have got jobs in which they went to uni for as the courses were so left side.

Click to expand...

So which subjects are meaningless?

Is it PotG? · Jun 27, 2017

studio150 said:
portslade seagull said:

So which subjects are meaningless?

Click to expand...

Going to be a long, subjective list of options.

portslade seagull · Jun 27, 2017

studio150 said:
portslade seagull said:

So which subjects are meaningless?

Click to expand...

As if you couldn't think of any. I do believe they are trying to clamp down on them but heyho.

Tubby-McFat-Fuc · Jun 27, 2017

studio150 said:
portslade seagull said:

So which subjects are meaningless?

Click to expand...

I would say no subjects are meaningless for anyone who wants to take them, but from a "who pays" point of view, I would personally would argue any subject that doesn't guarantee a job where there is a skill shortage, where we need qualified workers for, would probably come under the "pay your own way" status in my book. It would be great to offer all students who have the right grades free university education, but in these times where is isn't enough money to pay for everything, then I think we have more pressing needs to use taxpayers money, then university courses, where the graduate leaves Uni and joins the dole queue, or goes and works for MacDonals, because they are "over qualified".

Want to be a doctor, want to be a nurse, have the course for free and all the help you need (with safeguards in place to stop time wasters).

Want to be a lawyer, want a degree in Hand Embroidery or Cooking, then pay your own way.

Tubby-McFat-Fuc · Jun 27, 2017

Plooks said:
portslade seagull said:

You are deliberately confusing the existence of "pointless" degrees (not sure what gives you the right to determine what is useful to society and not) and the right to a free education. Maybe there should be a different mix of degrees being studied but that is a different issue so do not go throwing them together in order to falsely justify the disgusting practice of chargong for education! It stinks and you know it.

Click to expand...

Whilst I normally just take the piss out of anyone who calls something like charging for certain forms of education "disgusting" and post a lot of Flounces, as a tax payer living at a time where nurses are underpaid, we are short of nurses and doctors, and a whole host of cuts being made to stop the country haemorrhaging money, I would say as a starting point, asking the taxpayer to fund any of the following University courses in the current climate, would be ****ing obscene.

https://www.cssd.ac.uk/course/puppetry-design-and-performance-ba

https://www.plymouth.ac.uk/courses/undergraduate/fdsc-surf-science-and-technology

https://www.kent.ac.uk/courses/postgraduate/345/stand-up-comedy

http://www.uca.ac.uk/study/courses/ba-hand-embroidery/

https://ucreaseheath.ac.uk/courses/...ee-in-agriculture-with-dairy-herd-management/

https://www.ntu.ac.uk/study-and-cou...7-18/equestrian-psychology-and-sports-science

https://www.hw.ac.uk/study/uk/undergraduate/brewing-and-distilling.htm

https://www.lsbu.ac.uk/courses/course-finder/baking-technology-management-foundation-fdsc

By all means take the courses if that's what floats your boat, but can anyone seriously say the tax payers should fund the courses, all the time core public sector workers have below inflation pay rises?

beorhthelm · Jun 27, 2017

studio150 said:
so which subjects are meaningless?

theres lots of spurious courses, but lets open the bidding with a mainstream one: Art History. should we really be paying for over ten thousand students every year to study that?

im not in favour of tuition fees myself, but i dont understand the indignation at having to pay for it - suggesting that its not worth that investment. out in industry you can easily pay £3k for a 3-5 day course. the problem with university fees is that there are too many people going to university, which is firstly very expensive for the state and secondly devalues the graduate level. £9bn every year, thats an awful lot of cash to train people to go in to roles in marketing, sales, management etc. that dont require degree level education.

studio150 · Jun 27, 2017

beorhthelm said:
theres lots of spurious courses, but lets open the bidding with a mainstream one: Art History. should we really be paying for over ten thousand students every year to study that?

Just some of the wonderful careers that a degree in art history or the history of art that a graduate can look forward to.

The cultural industries are one of the biggest employers in the world. In addition to museums and galleries, there are many governmental and non-governmental agencies that work to conserve, research and promote cultural heritage and to further the production of art. Furthermore, History of Art graduates will be especially competitive for posts in any area that requires combinations of visual and verbal skills, such as publishing, advertising, marketing and web-based media, as well as entering the wide range of professions available to all humanities graduates..

So meaningless?

beorhthelm · Jun 28, 2017

studio150 said:
... Furthermore, History of Art graduates will be especially competitive for posts in any area that requires combinations of visual and verbal skills, such as publishing, advertising, marketing and web-based media, as well as entering the wide range of professions available to all humanities graduates..

right, so History of Art graduates are going into general office employment along side graduates in geography, art, marketing, design, business, english, socialology etc. i understand perfectly well that a wide range of views can help. in the native field of museums its extremly competitve to get the few roles as researchers, conservators, and curators, because theres not thousands of vacancies there. point i was making wasnt the degree subjects are meaningless rather the number of them make them so. rather than insisting that university education should be free, why isnt there a debate about what we want from education, and from university level so that a more suitable strategy can be devised. one both more affordable and probably more worthwhile for the those concerned.

clapham_gull · Jun 28, 2017

Tubby-McFat-Fuc said:
Plooks said:

Whilst I normally just take the piss out of anyone who calls something like charging for certain forms of education "disgusting" and post a lot of Flounces, as a tax payer living at a time where nurses are underpaid, we are short of nurses and doctors, and a whole host of cuts being made to stop the country haemorrhaging money, I would say as a starting point, asking the taxpayer to fund any of the following University courses in the current climate, would be ****ing obscene.

https://www.cssd.ac.uk/course/puppetry-design-and-performance-ba

https://www.plymouth.ac.uk/courses/undergraduate/fdsc-surf-science-and-technology

https://www.kent.ac.uk/courses/postgraduate/345/stand-up-comedy

http://www.uca.ac.uk/study/courses/ba-hand-embroidery/

https://ucreaseheath.ac.uk/courses/...ee-in-agriculture-with-dairy-herd-management/

https://www.ntu.ac.uk/study-and-cou...7-18/equestrian-psychology-and-sports-science

https://www.hw.ac.uk/study/uk/undergraduate/brewing-and-distilling.htm

https://www.lsbu.ac.uk/courses/course-finder/baking-technology-management-foundation-fdsc

By all means take the courses if that's what floats your boat, but can anyone seriously say the tax payers should fund the courses, all the time core public sector workers have below inflation pay rises?

Click to expand...

It's "subjective" but I don't have a problem with many of those courses to be honest. Even the surfing one if it encourages someone to start something up locally.

I have a degree in Media Studies (I know) and Business Management.

.. also a Masters in Computer Science which I paid for.

Back in the day the first got we into a work experience course in the TV Industry. I've never left and have paid multiple times back in taxes what the course cost the local authority.

However that was in the day that no-one was offering that and I took it quite randomly.

These days that really isn't a foot in the door. Recruitment is quite random (in my experience) 99% of the jobs aren't creative and to be honest - the jobs go to people who people who somehow are able to support themselves in London on very low wages.

So probably not controversially can't really see the point of "Media Studies" these days.

Art History - sorry we need people studying Art History even Medieval Literature else the knowledge is lost.

Probably best to focus on why so many people study Law and Sociology and never entering either professions ? I think the sociologists always end up in HR.

I also worry how many people end up in "Technology Roles" without a formal technology education.

clapham_gull · Jun 28, 2017

Plooks said:
clapham_gull said:

Just to make it clear from your quote that that is not my post. I do not want be associated with the, quite frankly, backwards and abhorrent view that education should be paid for.
Society gains from its population becoming educated, regardless of if it is directly via nurses and doctors and engineers or indirectly by people just widening their knowledge base. If we want a truly fair and democratic society we need to become more educated in order to make more informed desicions about the future and be less easily manipulated by the press and others with selfish and hidden agendas.

Click to expand...

What happened there ? Oh I see.

I agree 100% but there are some nonsense degrees - many dumbed down, often split into courses to make it much easier. It's happened by stealth.

I thought the history at school I was taught was bollocks too. All fluffy and "empathy". Before I did my first degree - I was studying what can I only describe as "Marxist History" for a year at a very politicised university.

You literally had to turn up - I kid you not. My end of year project involved me cutting up pieces of paper randomly and sticking them on a piece of cardboard.

However, to try and justify the complete nonsense (*) they made us study very very straight history of "Kings and Queens". That's what I was crying out for at school. I can make my opinion about anything but needed an historical framework,

(*) As to not discriminate against those how couldn't be ****ed to go to the library - the degree office photocopied all the chapters and articles from the relevant texts and placed them in an envelope in our pigeons holes. Being an early adopter of PCs (this was early 90s) I typed the relevant paragraphs into wordperfect 5.1 - rearranged them into essay of sorts and changed the words.

Straight A every-time. Plagiarism ? No, it was simply expected. Didn't learn a thing (apart from the history) just sussed in a highly politicised environment you could say anything as long as involved having a pop at Thatcher.

Why ? Because there wasn't really an area of study. Hugely subjective.

All paid for the state - as well as my decision to leave.

That was probably an extraordinary experience - but it was my experience.

Got out after a year on the basis of my "amazing results" and walked into the University of Manchester with rubbish A Levels.

Mental Lental · Jun 28, 2017

Plooks said:
clapham_gull said:

Just to make it clear from your quote that that is not my post. I do not want be associated with the, quite frankly, backwards and abhorrent view that education should be paid for.
Society gains from its population becoming educated, regardless of if it is directly via nurses and doctors and engineers or indirectly by people just widening their knowledge base. If we want a truly fair and democratic society we need to become more educated in order to make more informed desicions about the future and be less easily manipulated by the press and others with selfish and hidden agendas.

Click to expand...

The last thing the Tory party want is an educated populace capable of making informed decisions. The people might make the educated and informed decision not to vote Tory.

clapham_gull · Jun 28, 2017

I remember this quite bizarre seminar.

The University at the time would take anyone at all. That was great by the way, It was fascinating to see these adult students (with no qualifications) from very working class backgrounds suddenly enlightened by reading about Marx or the English civil war.

But you ended up with these young middle class lecturers (all dressed like Morrisey) talking down to to the working class about what "struggle" really meant.

Anyway - there was this brilliant Greek / English girl - proper London who appeared to spend the weekend in gay clubs with all her numerous male friends.

She just popped into the conversation as a matter of fact that her gay male friend used the phrase "up the elephant" to describe his gay friends. Whilst also discussing that her mum (to her embarrassment) had a copy of the Mona Lisa on the wall.

It all then descends into a discussion about "her homophobia" and the cultural snobbishness she directs towards her mother.

This was a history degree remember.

This was all dragged out of us - because the objective was some form of re-programming carried by guilty middle class ex-students in Doctor Martin.

First two week - no lectures. Just watching "suitable" films that attacked the state.

I look back in absolute laughter, It was complete bonkers.

Kinky Gerbil · Jun 28, 2017

DUP would like another £460 million in tax cuts after Brexit to carry on supporting.

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