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[Politics] Brexit
- Thread starter KingstonSeagull
- Start date
nicko31
Well-known member
Whatever side of the fence you are on, Brexit is mess and really hard to say where we will end up. Interesting site, though unless you are a genuis it will take you more than 5 minutes to digest everything said...
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/201...-need-to-know-about-the-final-weeks-of-brexit
Predictions anyone??
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/201...-need-to-know-about-the-final-weeks-of-brexit
Predictions anyone??
Thanks for posting that, it was really enlightening. I think everyone, be they Remainer or Leaver, is agreed that the whole thing has been handled appallingly.
nicko31
Well-known member
I think a lot of the public have become bored, dis-interested and tired of Brexit and this leads to the come phrase "just get on with it" without understanding the complexities (no easy feat)
It is its easier said than done, TM still has a what seems an impossible task though partly of her own making. Her own party can ditch her for a Brexiteer and that takes time, and then surely there's even less chance of a deal that passes through parliament
I think it's entirely of her own making. She had no need to call an election and lose her majority; she had no need to enter into a deal with the DUP, something that's made the NI issue far harder to solve and it was she who appointed David "thick as mince, lazy as a toad" Davis as Brexit Secretary, who spent 18 months doing nothing.
Yes, she has a tough (impossible?) task but it's one that she brought on herself.
- Jul 10, 2003
- 25,791
I agree with you that she made three big errors of judgement as PM. But even if she hadn't called the election and jumped in with the DUP, the NI/Ireland issue would still be there unless the whole of Britain remained in a CU (I know, we haven't seen what Chequers - - consists of yet
). On the appointment of Davis, she had to appoint a leaver, which immediately cut out most of the more competent MPs, although I have to agree his complete and well known inability 'do detail' should have been flashing warning signs to her, but I'm not sure who the alternatives were at the time.
However, the biggest mistake she made was taking on PM. Whoever took that role was on a hiding to nothing. The EU were never going to give up their principles and let us cherry pick what we wanted and 'no deal' was never a realistic option. Not for the first time, a politicians ambition has overruled their common sense.
But, at the end of the day, she's a senior politician who knew what she was getting herself into, so no sympathy here
Lincoln Imp
Well-known member
- Feb 2, 2009
- 5,964
I accept that calling the 2017 election was in hindsight a serious misjudgment (and even without hindsight a cynical manoeuvre) but I do wonder if it can all the problems can be laid at May's door - even Einstein would have found it hard to deal with the inevitable chaos that people unwittingly voted for.
Not at all. The agreement that was made last December was for there to be a customs border in the Irish Sea - the EU and May signed up for it ... and then the DUP threw a hissy fit and it was back to the drawing board.
And I don't agree that she had to appoint a Leaver as Brexit Sec. I totally agree that the negotiations are incredibly complex and will need a specialist skills, so the last thing she should have done was to appoint someone who didn't 'do detail'. As I've said before, if she'd appointed Labour members to the negotiating team, she'd have solved many of the problems she'd created but if that proved politically impossible, she should have appointed a Tory with a fine eye for detail.
- Jul 10, 2003
- 25,791
A large number of leavers have decided that we are where we are because of 'remainers being in charge'. Could you imagine the furore if a remainer had been put in charge of the Brexit negotiations ? And that would leave an even smaller pool of Labour leavers to choose from.
Added to which, given the result of the referendum, why on earth would Labour want to take part of the blame ? They would steer well clear, it's their best chance of getting into power.
I know what you wanted from Leaving the EU and agree that a cross party group would have been best for that solution, but I think your views only represent a small number of leavers. (However, I do think that you may well be closest to getting what you want out of the leavers on here, with the way current negotiations are going).
Yes, that's a good point. But if it were presented as being in the national good then Labour may find it hard to refuse - they'd be labelled as the unpatriotic party.
I also take your point about a Remainer being in charge but if the NI border problem was not an issue (which it wouldn't be if there was no need for DUP support), then we may actually be in a better place. People are moaning Remainers because it's all going wrong.
I agree that it would have been tricky whatever happened but May has made things considerably worse for herself.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
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nicko31
Well-known member
We are all going to pay for this. Brexit is like hosting a World Cup, a Euros, and couple of Olympics all in a couple of years without any of the fun
Are you sure it was agreed? This is The United Kingdom you are talking about here, We are currently governed by the Conservative and UNIONIST party are you sure she has the right to dismantle this United Kingdom on a whim to placate her Brexiteer members of parliament and of course by design her leave voters on here and in the country?
Lincoln Imp
Well-known member
- Feb 2, 2009
- 5,964
Well it's certainly not all Jon Thompson, Head of HM Revenue, is hearing from them. He's had to change his travel arrangements and other routines and has received death threats of sufficient seriousness to require a police investigation he revealed today. In an act of foolhardiness Mr Thompson allowed his department to publish a document in May that wasn't entirely cheerful about certain Brexit implications.
What a country we're becoming.
Yes, on the 4th December, the EU and UK negotiating teams had announced that they'd reached agreement and would announce details later - but the basic terms were that NI would remain part of the customs union. DUP went ballistic and it was back to the negotiating table to thrash out the present agreement which, TBH, is a classic fudge. But it did delay things a bit further while the UK looked for a magic solution - I think the current plan involves leprechauns riding golden-hooved unicorns carrying goods over the border, or something.
The hard facts are: that it's impossible for NI to be outside the customs union without a hard border. In other words, the UK will stay part of the CU, NI and GB will go their separate ways or there'll be a hard border. They may dress it up in fancy words but it will be one of these three options.
Raleigh Chopper
New member
Crikey!
Things are rattling along now.
Huge lorry park started to be built alongside the M20 so that huge tailbacks are avoided in case of a no deal. Talk about showing your hand early.
Is that a sign to the EU that we are going for no deal and calling their bluff for a better deal, or have we decided that no deal is what we are going to get (god help us)
Or is this the Tories spending more of our money from the magic tree for a grin.
Things are rattling along now.
Huge lorry park started to be built alongside the M20 so that huge tailbacks are avoided in case of a no deal. Talk about showing your hand early.
Is that a sign to the EU that we are going for no deal and calling their bluff for a better deal, or have we decided that no deal is what we are going to get (god help us)
Or is this the Tories spending more of our money from the magic tree for a grin.
If that is the case then I find it abhorrent. Is this what you voted for? To break up this United Kingdom? Did you in all honesty believe that the break up of our nation would be a price worth paying when alone in that booth putting your cross on the ballot paper?
Butch Willykins
Well-known member
For months remainers have moaned the government are making no contingency plans.
Now the government make some contingency plans and you moan.
I’m starting to think you just love a moan.
Blue Valkyrie
Not seen such Bravery!
Prediction :
*No deal*
Food and Fuel shortages, economy crashes shortly after Lemmings Day in March 2019.
Civil unrest.
Civil Contingencies Act invoked.
Social media ( including this thread ) shut down as part of the resulting Government powers.
The end.
Raleigh Chopper
New member
That's a fair enough reply, but don't you find it a little bit odd that they have started it already when the lorry park was such a bone of contention between the 2 sides, that lorry tailbacks will not happen, that it is all more project fear and then, bingo, up go the cones, what happens if we get a decent deal, does all work stop, i should imagine a lot of money has already been spent before a shovel hit the ground, but it has actually started today.
Contingency plans are usually on paper, drawn up and ready to go if the balloon goes up, not inflating it before you know if you are going to need it.
I would love to know how many EU migrant workers have been taken on for this project.