Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
If it's slightly different, they have their pride in saying they've renegotiated, & not being dictated to by the Germans.
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Greece crisis: Europe on edge over snap election
- Thread starter TomandJerry
- Start date
If it's slightly different, they have their pride in saying they've renegotiated, & not being dictated to by the Germans.
TomandJerry
Well-known member
- Oct 1, 2013
- 11,491
- Thread starter
- #722
"Greece came without new proposals"
"Greece came without new proposals"
I hope those that were criticising me yesterday over my disdain for the Greek government are reading this. No new proposals. Wtf.
fataddick
Well-known member
They may not be allowed to, but how could anyone stop them? They own the machinery required to print 20 euro bills and have made this point (as a veiled threat?) already. The European Central Bank looked the other way when Ireland printed 51 billion of (technically counterfeit) Euros when they were in similar economic trouble. Why not let (implicitly or by turning a blind eye) Greece do the same?
TomandJerry
Well-known member
- Oct 1, 2013
- 11,491
- Thread starter
- #725
Finland's PM says looking likely eurozone summit is waste of time. Starting on wrong footing w/o proposal from*#Greece
Why? It wasn't your disdain for the Greek government I was criticising you for, it was your lack of empathy for the people.
Personally I'm very critical of the Greek 'work' ethic, and the governments they've chosen to elect over the years. I believe the problems they now face are mostly of their own making. But then I also know that there are a) young people who aren't responsible for Greece's past actions, and b) there will also be responsible Greeks who have worked, paid their tax, and not voted for their ridiculous governments.
And although I don't consider myself particularly right wing, I would have thought I am compared to you. So I was surprised to read your recent views, which seemed fairly fascist.
The Merry Prankster
Pactum serva
Maybe their proposals are the correct ones, if they are to stay in the Euro. The 20/30 years of hopeless austerity Germany wants to enforce on them,in an attempt to pay back the unpayable, is not something anyone would go for. Even the IMF say they need debt relief. Without debt relief there is no solution other default and leaving the Euro (personally I think they should but they want to stay).
Don't give me the Germans are but one of many argument, if the Germans offer debt relief then debt relief it is.
TomandJerry
Well-known member
- Oct 1, 2013
- 11,491
- Thread starter
- #728
#greece*won't be able to tap ESM dosh before july 20 even if deal done - eurozone source
Failure to repay the European Central Bank on July 20 could have very serious consequences; the ECB could respond by terminating the emergency liquidity assistance provided to Greek banks*
Eurozone*sources said that under the formal new bailout proposal to be tabled on Wednesday, it would take several weeks before Greece could hope to receive any disbursements.
None of that money would be possible before July 20 when Greece has to pay theEuropean Central Bank*€3.5bn.
Failure to repay the European Central Bank on July 20 could have very serious consequences; the ECB could respond by terminating the emergency liquidity assistance provided to Greek banks*
Eurozone*sources said that under the formal new bailout proposal to be tabled on Wednesday, it would take several weeks before Greece could hope to receive any disbursements.
None of that money would be possible before July 20 when Greece has to pay theEuropean Central Bank*€3.5bn.
Hmmmm. I know you're a smart chap and certainly not one for fishing or fibbing, far from it, so I'm intrigued to know which of my comments you have interpreted as "fascist'. All I can say at the moment is you have misinterpreted my thoughts on the crisis.
TomandJerry
Well-known member
- Oct 1, 2013
- 11,491
- Thread starter
- #730
The Greek government has been told by its eurozone partners not to expect debt relief any time soon, amid fading hopes of decisive action to stop the country tumbling out of the currency union.
Arriving at an emergency summit of eurozone leaders,*Angela Merkel*said there was no clear basis to negotiate with Athens after Greek voters rejected an EU bailout plan in a referendum on Sunday. The German chancellor warned that time was running out. “It is not a matter of weeks anymore, it is a matter of days.”
Eurozone*finance ministers meeting ahead of the summit made it clear they were waiting on Athens to make the first move and were in no hurry to discuss debt relief.
Diplomatic niceties were abandoned as it emerged Greece’s new finance minister Euclid Tsakalotos had not come armed with detailed proposals.
Arriving at an emergency summit of eurozone leaders,*Angela Merkel*said there was no clear basis to negotiate with Athens after Greek voters rejected an EU bailout plan in a referendum on Sunday. The German chancellor warned that time was running out. “It is not a matter of weeks anymore, it is a matter of days.”
Eurozone*finance ministers meeting ahead of the summit made it clear they were waiting on Athens to make the first move and were in no hurry to discuss debt relief.
Diplomatic niceties were abandoned as it emerged Greece’s new finance minister Euclid Tsakalotos had not come armed with detailed proposals.
I've been to that club in Hamburg too......
Mellor 3 Ward 4
Well-known member
You were being criticised for your total lack of empathy with the Greek people.
I have been misinterpreted. Of course I have empathy.
Mellor 3 Ward 4
Well-known member
Which considering your usual anti-austerity stance, and your socialist views was somewhat unusual.
I guess it's because it happens to be Germany to whom the majority of the money is owed.
You really must stop reading the propaganda churned out in Bild.
cunning fergus
Well-known member
- Jan 18, 2009
- 4,747
Interestingly, the Finns have a particularly hard line Eurosceptic Finance Minister, who, whilst I am sure won’t cut his country’s nose off to spite its economic face, he will undoubtedly have a different political agenda to his more Europhile peers.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/27/us-finland-government-soini-idUSKBN0OC1AK20150527
Indeed this is a developing political trend in the EU; following Denmark’s election result a couple of weeks ago the second biggest party (DPP) is an openly Eurosceptic party hostile to the EU. They will have influence on the Govt.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...eurosceptics-stay-out-of-next-government.html
Fair enough the Danes are not in the euro, but the Finns are, and the trouble for the Eurozone is that as this crisis deepens so public moods will harden (in whatever direction). This will mean domestic political demands will be the tail that wags the euro currency dog.
Its why this currency was always destined to fail; any currency needs a single Government and single economic policy, even the Scots understood that.
To have it work properly all the Eurozone members would need to surrender their national sovereignty and fully equalise their respective national liabilities (or assets).
Only the most zealous euro enthusiasts would have supported it, though the poorer Eurozone states would undoubtedly have the most to gain.
It may not be the question that everyone wants to deal with now, but it will need to be confronted eventually.
To complete the all work needed to support the euro its either forward and convince (a) the Germans to hand over their money and (b) surrender of all EZ states sovereignty, or we go back to the national currencies.
TomandJerry
Well-known member
- Oct 1, 2013
- 11,491
- Thread starter
- #736
Donald Tusk, chairing the eurozone summit, wants the leaders to take a decision tonight on whether Greece can obtain a new, longer-term bailout deal from the European Stability Mechanism, EU sources said.
A green light for such a move will depend on what Tsipras tells the summit, they added, displaying frustration that the Greeks had not yet, as expected, formally submitted proposals for a rescue package.
A green light for such a move will depend on what Tsipras tells the summit, they added, displaying frustration that the Greeks had not yet, as expected, formally submitted proposals for a rescue package.
If multiple people think I lack sympathy for the Greeks then I've clearly written something misleading. I repeat, I do have empathy for their plight. But I also lay the blame for this mess with successive Greek governments and a chunk of the population. These are not mutually exclusive and one doesn't negate the other. I want them to be helped. In amongst my hole-digging I have said a few times I believe a mutually agreeable deal will be struck. I still do.
Nope, I'll criticise you for your blind and almost evangelical support for the EU, France and Germany who are equally culpable in this farce. So on one side we have a irresponsible set of Greek governments and on the other the corrupt EU. Stuck in the middle are the normal Greek people who are unable to get their savings out and even buy basic medicines.
I'll support the Greek people and then the Greek government ahead of the corrupt EU any day of the week.
Greece is in a Great Depression.25% loss of GDP .Entrenched unemployment over 20%.
Youth unemployment over 50% .Income=spending.There is no way any kind of austerity
can help Greece.They need their government to spend more /tax less basic Keynesian stimulus.
All of the bailouts (bailins to the eurozone) have been a disaster.
Debt relief will make no difference unless it allows extra stimulus.
Youth unemployment over 50% .Income=spending.There is no way any kind of austerity
can help Greece.They need their government to spend more /tax less basic Keynesian stimulus.
All of the bailouts (bailins to the eurozone) have been a disaster.
Debt relief will make no difference unless it allows extra stimulus.
Buzzer
Languidly Clinical
- Oct 1, 2006
- 26,121
Sorry, I don't think you do.