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[Misc] The NHS

What should we do with the NHS?

  • Privatise it

    Votes: 29 16.2%

  • Keep it in the political system

    Votes: 150 83.8%
  • Total voters
    179


Weststander

Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 25, 2011
63,938
Withdean area
I had to spend yesterday morning at the Royal Sussex for a prearranged test.

All I can say is that the facilities (in one of the modern buildings at the rear) were first class and that all the staff/professionals were amazing.

Love the NHS, and well worth all the tax/ni paid.

The first of the two new huge buildings on Eastern Road costing £400m, is already looking imposing. Sussex is finally going to get the hospital it deserves.
 




H

Hampster Gull

New member
Dec 22, 2010
13,462
Herr Tubthumper said:
1) Yes you have to have health insurance.
3) If you have job then your health insurance will be taken out at source; think of this as like UK NI. You and your employer pay a fixed percentage which I believe is the same for everyone.
4) I believe if you are unemployed your health insurance premium becomes a monthly nominal amount which you continue to pay from your benefits.
5) You can elect to pay private health insurance with certain job statuses like freelance. Or if you earn over a certain amount you can leave the public system, stop paying into the public system and be private. Below this threshold you can still take private but your insurance payments will still be taken....like UK NI
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Interesting that those earning over a certain amount can stop paying into the public system and go private. Here you have to keep paying regardless.
 


Weststander

Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 25, 2011
63,938
Withdean area
Hampster Gull said:
Interesting that those earning over a certain amount can stop paying into the public system and go private. Here you have to keep paying regardless.
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The same with private schooling here.

A good thing as everyone has to contribute to huge cost of the overall state system in the UK, although I know one seriously rich guy who disapproves.
 


H

Hampster Gull

New member
Dec 22, 2010
13,462
Weststander said:
The same with private schooling here.

A good thing as everyone has to contribute to huge cost of the overall state system in the UK, although I know one seriously rich guy who disapproves.
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There are other options as the Germans show. At the last general election the bbc did an article that showed higher tax payers with kids pay more in tax here than in Germany, that’s before points above.
 


Weststander

Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 25, 2011
63,938
Withdean area
Hampster Gull said:
There are other options as the Germans show. At the last general election it showed higher tax payers with kids pay more,in apraxia here than in Germany, that’s before points above.
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I agree, @HT’s synospsis was enlightening.

But here, every £ for the NHS is very much needed, so we couldn’t afford for x percent of the population to go it alone, especially the larger taxpayers.

A revolutionary proposal for the German’s system would be political suicide for any party putting the idea forward. The other partes would have a field day in propaganda.
 




H

Hampster Gull

New member
Dec 22, 2010
13,462
Weststander said:
I agree, @HT’s synospsis was enlightening.

But here, every £ for the NHS is very much needed, so we couldn’t afford for x percent of the population to go it alone, especially the larger taxpayers.

A revolutionary proposal for the German’s system would be political suicide for any party putting the idea forward. The other partes would have a field day in propaganda.
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The NHS is a political minefield, I agree. I love the NHS, don’t get me wrong, and am happy to contribute despite having company private health insurance, I have seen the benefits to individuals, families and communities. I do think though we cannot afford the costs as they increase going forward with an ageing demographic and with fewer younger immigrants. We currently spend what 20% of all tax raised on health. Not sure I have any faith in our political class to sort this problem out
 


Weststander

Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 25, 2011
63,938
Withdean area
Hampster Gull said:
The NHS is a political minefield, I agree. I love the NHS, don’t get me wrong, and am happy to contribute despite having company private health insurance, I have seen the benefits to individuals, families and communities. I do think though we cannot afford the costs as they increase going forward with an ageing demographic and with fewer younger immigrants. We currently spend what 20% of all tax raised on health. Not sure I have any faith in our political class to sort this problem out
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If only all the main political parties would get together with no petty angles, to strategically look at this, also linked to taxation and care for the elderly. Some consensus politics did occur from 2010 to 2015, with Cameron using the considerable talents of people like Frank Field and others in wide ranging reviews, but it all too fleeting.
 


A

amexer

Well-known member
Aug 8, 2011
6,199
NHS does a great job. Myself ,close family including children have used it over years and service has been very good. Unfortunately It would be end of any political party that suggested anything but throw money at it. I think there is lots of ways we could contribute including most paying to see doctor. Many dont turn up for appointments and a start would be to charge these.
Does anybody know if there is any other country that provides all health care for free.
 




DavidinSouthampton

DavidinSouthampton

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 3, 2012
16,582
Tom Hark said:
NHS seriously needs to split A&E into Timewasters & Emergency.

Ever had the misfortune to have a loved one admitted to hospital by ambulance round about pub closing time on a weekend? I have. I'd estimate it's about 10% Emergency, 90% pissed-up white trash. But I guess that's the Medway Maritime for you. Reflects the demographic of Gillingham and Chatham innit :shrug:
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My wife broke her leg in May and I took her to A&E in Winchester - nice place, Winchester. This was on a Tuesday night. It was very busy and a sizeable proportion of the people in there were youngsters who were the worse for wear, and students rather than white trash...…. or maybe white trash students.
 


Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,523
The Fatherland
Hampster Gull said:
There are other options as the Germans show. At the last general election the bbc did an article that showed higher tax payers with kids pay more in tax here than in Germany, that’s before points above.
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I’ve seen lots of German comparisons and most always fail to include health insurance and/or the solidarity tax. Both a separate taxes and given health insurance is a legal requirement even the private opt-out option is a tax. Im confident the majority of Brits living in Germany will tell you the tax is higher here than in the U.K. for virtually every individual or family scenario.
 


H

Hampster Gull

New member
Dec 22, 2010
13,462
Herr Tubthumper said:
I’ve seen lots of German comparisons and most always fail to include health insurance and/or the solidarity tax. Both a separate taxes and given health insurance is a legal requirement even the private opt-out option is a tax. Im confident the majority of Brits living in Germany will tell you the tax is higher here than in the U.K. for virtually every individual or family scenario.
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We got into this debate in some detail during the last election and you acknowledged the analysis. But I have no access to it now to check through
 




H

Hampster Gull

New member
Dec 22, 2010
13,462
Herr Tubthumper said:
I’ve seen lots of German comparisons and most always fail to include health insurance and/or the solidarity tax. Both a separate taxes and given health insurance is a legal requirement even the private opt-out option is a tax. Im confident the majority of Brits living in Germany will tell you the tax is higher here than in the U.K. for virtually every individual or family scenario.
Click to expand...

I’ve found the analysis, extracts from bbc website below. It’s from 2014, Which country has the highest tax rate? As they say it’s extremely difficult to unpick given the complexity.

Tax rates do vary dramatically depending on which country you live in. The accountancy firm PricewaterhouseCoopers (PWC) has crunched the numbers for the G20 nations.

For each country, they calculated how much a high earner on a salary of $400,000 (£240,000) in 2013, with a mortgage of $1.2m (£750,000), would have left after all income tax rates and social security contributions.

They assume this person is married with two children, one of them aged under six.

These are their findings. In each country, the wage earner takes home the following proportion of his or her salary.

United Kingdom -57.28%
Germany - 60.61%

It is difficult to compare tax rates. Income tax is only one tax - most of us will pay other kinds of tax, like social security, and those with children might get some tax relief.

The statisticians at the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) have done some analysis of average salaries.

"At the top end of the distribution we have Belgium where single people pay 43% of earnings in income tax and social security contributions (or national insurance), followed by Germany with 39.9%," says Maurice Nettley, head of tax statistics at the OECD. "The lowest rates are paid in Chile at 7% and Mexico at 9.5%."

These tax rates apply to single people with no children, on an average salary for their country.

UK - 24.90%
Germany - 39.90%

The following tax rates apply to married couples with two children.

UK - 24.9%
Germany - 21.3%

In Germany the rate drops from 39.9% to 21.3% because of generous child tax credits. Across the OECD, tax rates drop by an average of 5.5% for married couples with children.
 


Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,523
The Fatherland
Hampster Gull said:
I’ve found the analysis, extracts from bbc website below. It’s from 2014, Which country has the highest tax rate? As they say it’s extremely difficult to unpick given the complexity.

Tax rates do vary dramatically depending on which country you live in. The accountancy firm PricewaterhouseCoopers (PWC) has crunched the numbers for the G20 nations.

For each country, they calculated how much a high earner on a salary of $400,000 (£240,000) in 2013, with a mortgage of $1.2m (£750,000), would have left after all income tax rates and social security contributions.

They assume this person is married with two children, one of them aged under six.

These are their findings. In each country, the wage earner takes home the following proportion of his or her salary.

United Kingdom -57.28%
Germany - 60.61%

It is difficult to compare tax rates. Income tax is only one tax - most of us will pay other kinds of tax, like social security, and those with children might get some tax relief.

The statisticians at the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) have done some analysis of average salaries.

"At the top end of the distribution we have Belgium where single people pay 43% of earnings in income tax and social security contributions (or national insurance), followed by Germany with 39.9%," says Maurice Nettley, head of tax statistics at the OECD. "The lowest rates are paid in Chile at 7% and Mexico at 9.5%."

These tax rates apply to single people with no children, on an average salary for their country.

UK - 24.90%
Germany - 39.90%

The following tax rates apply to married couples with two children.

UK - 24.9%
Germany - 21.3%

In Germany the rate drops from 39.9% to 21.3% because of generous child tax credits. Across the OECD, tax rates drop by an average of 5.5% for married couples with children.
Click to expand...

This rings a bell; I remember. As you say it is complex. And something else to consider is that a spouse can use up all the other partners tax over here. This is particularly advantageous if one partner doesn’t work. In the U.K. this would be like having double your tax free alliance and higher rate starting at 80%.
 


D

Deleted member 22389

Guest
Well again excellent service getting my mum's scans sorted. All we have to do is pay a bit more money, cut out the waste, and stop the NHS being used as a political football.
 




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