[Politics] Brexit

portslade seagull · Oct 19, 2018

Plooks said:
I think we are entitled to be pissed off. It will be is that has to clean this shit up, yet again! The same for the shitshow the environment is in as well. Or are you saying we just shut up, bend over and take all the ahot you shovel our way?

Plooks believe me when I say whatever we are doing for the environment over here is negated a 100 times over in Africa. That's where the emphasis should be if were worried about the planet. Plenty of plastic rubbish there

Murray 17 · Oct 19, 2018

pastafarian said:
Yeah but dont forget The Indians entered WW2 to fight for the European Project.

You've got to laugh at how they twist things, haven't you?

We didn't vote to leave the Customs Union, we didn't vote to leave Single Market...blah, blah...

No, we voted to leave it all!

Murray 17 · Oct 19, 2018

portslade seagull said:
Plooks believe me when I say whatever we are doing for the environment over here is negated a 100 times over in Africa. That's where the emphasis should be if were worried about the planet. Plenty of plastic rubbish there

Same with global warming.

As we emit less than 2% of greenhouse gases, anything we do is a drop in the ocean.

Have a word with China, India and the US if you want to save the planet.

Baker lite · Oct 19, 2018

Plooks said:
So we are not entitled to express an opinion on the direction of the country? But you are!?

You REALLY need to stop all this “so you can and we cannot “ quoting nonsense.
Obligation,there is another word...

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Baker lite · Oct 19, 2018

Plooks said:
Never thought we should lead by example? Show the world that you can be a strong country and economy and be clean? The "we are not the worst" excuse is wearing thin!

Right,I’m off to bed, work in the morning, Enjoy the March tomorrow and remember, others have payed the ultimate price for you to be there, stay safe and get a few photos,I would genuinely be interested to see the spectrum of age groups that attend.
On our way.

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Murray 17 · Oct 19, 2018

Plooks said:
Never thought we should lead by example? Show the world that you can be a strong country and economy and be clean? The "we are not the worst" excuse is wearing thin!

Well we aren't the worst, and nowhere near being the worst. Even liberal, easy-going Canada is worse than us for emissions.

We could all pay extra taxes, walk everywhere or pay huge amounts for environmentally-friendly cars, etc, etc, and shave a huge 0.1% off the world's greenhouse gases.

I don't think those 3 countries I mentioned will ever have a guilty conscience and change their behaviour, because the UK is doing its part.

Westdene Seagull · Oct 19, 2018

Plooks said:
No! What you lot are saying is it is ok for someone to express a brexit opinion as that "won", but express a remain opinion and you are an undemocratic loon!

Come on Plooks, time for bed .... it's an early start for the march tomorrow .... or were you telling a lie about going on it ? Surely someone as passionate about the EU as you wouldn't miss it ?

Murray 17 · Oct 19, 2018

Plooks said:
So we should just give up? Wow.

Or get the worst polluters to play their part. A 5% reduction for China, not unreasonable or unmanageable, would be like us cutting our emissions almost completely.

It's about proportion for me. Would you take public transport over driving, if it extended your working day by 1-2 hours?

Westdene Seagull · Oct 19, 2018

Plooks said:
I already take public transport and it does take longer by about a factor of 2.
I understand your point but what is more likely to work: go to china and demand they clean up, but we do nothing. Or: we clean up and then tell china do do the same.
One is far more likely to work.

I assume you'll be taking the train to the demo tomorrow then ?

Murray 17 · Oct 19, 2018

Plooks said:
I already take public transport and it does take longer by about a factor of 2.
I understand your point but what is more likely to work: go to china and demand they clean up, but we do nothing. Or: we clean up and then tell china do do the same.
One is far more likely to work.

Without wanting to sound patronising, well done for taking public transport if it takes you so much longer.

Baldseagull · Oct 19, 2018

JC Footy Genius said:
Making derogatory sweeping statements about a particular generation is a mainstay of Remoaners arguments (hope the old die off soon etc) on this thread and elsewhere .. so suck it up cupcake. For EU maintaining a 'period of peace' .. see NATO (backed by US) and the Soviet threat.

Lastly, when's that Brexit Recession lie you have been peddling for the last two years going to arrive?

It's coming.

Baldseagull · Oct 19, 2018

Murray 17 said:
Quite.

It's amazing the number of Remoaners who think the reason WW3 hasn't broken out, is down to the EU!

More amazing the number of leavers that place no value at all in the role of the EU in keeping things cordial in Europe, and that a mention of avoiding conflict in Europe suddenly becomes World War 3.

Baldseagull · Oct 19, 2018

Murray 17 said:
Same with global warming.

As we emit less than 2% of greenhouse gases, anything we do is a drop in the ocean.

Have a word with China, India and the US if you want to save the planet.

They won't take a blind bit of notice of Britain, the EU might get somewhere though.

Garry Nelson's teacher · Oct 20, 2018

I've not seen any research on this, but I think that there might well be a correlation between Leavers and climate change scepticism. I think that Westdene has some joined up (if in my view totally wrong) views on the matter, but as for others it's simply a bit of an undercurrent that I might be imagining. (Maybe there's a deep-rooted distrust of 'experts' that links the two?)

So - what do you think? Cards on table: I'm a remainer who is borderline terrified of climate change.

Westdene Seagull · Oct 20, 2018

Garry Nelson's teacher said:
I've not seen any research on this, but I think that there might well be a correlation between Leavers and climate change scepticism. I think that Westdene has some joined up (if in my view totally wrong) views on the matter, but as for others it's simply a bit of an undercurrent that I might be imagining. (Maybe there's a deep-rooted distrust of 'experts' that links the two?)

So - what do you think? Cards on table: I'm a remainer who is borderline terrified of climate change.

An interesting theory ! Me, I absolutely believe climate change is happening but I believe it's a natural occurance that has been sped up and increased by humankind. I'm a strong advocate for the environment and animal welfare - I think Gove is doing a fairly decent job in his current role ( yes, I know, I'm in a minority on that one ! ). Given it's relative size and power, and to link this back to the thread topic, I think the EU has done a pretty shoddy job in the environment and animal wlefare arenas.

That said, councils such as B&H aren't any better. One easy (ish) change would be to change recycling collections to every week and normal waste collections to bi-weekly. I also agree with the call by MPs to bring forward the ban on petrol cars by 8 years - hell, make it 10.

Supermarkets have been forced to reduce plastic bags - that's good. What about the rest of the unecessary packing though ? Have you seen the ridiculous amount of crap online retailers use to wrap their products ? Government needs to come down hard on this excessive waste.

The problem in this country, and to a certain extent within the EU, is that the government are trying to balance the views of the people that won't change ( look at the idiots that opposed the offshore windfarm ) with the views of the lunatic green fringe ( who also do themselves no favours with idiot ideas such as meat free Monday and how they ran B&H Council ). People need to change their habits ...... and fast. *** end of rant ***

EDIT - and to link back yet again to this thread and one of [MENTION=15363]Plooks[/MENTION] rants, the previous generation aren't the only people to blame for the current environmental situation. For example, one of the worst offending groups in B&H for not recycling are students. Cityclean actually employee three people as student liason officers to try and correct their behaviour.

WATFORD zero · Oct 20, 2018

Westdene Seagull said:
An interesting theory ! Me, I absolutely believe climate change is happening but I believe it's a natural occurance that has been sped up and increased by humankind. I'm a strong advocate for the environment and animal welfare - I think Gove is doing a fairly decent job in his current role ( yes, I know, I'm in a minority on that one ! ). Given it's relative size and power, and to link this back to the thread topic, I think the EU has done a pretty shoddy job in the environment and animal wlefare arenas.

That said, councils such as B&H aren't any better. One easy (ish) change would be to change recycling collections to every week and normal waste collections to bi-weekly. I also agree with the call by MPs to bring forward the ban on petrol cars by 8 years - hell, make it 10.

Supermarkets have been forced to reduce plastic bags - that's good. What about the rest of the unecessary packing though ? Have you seen the ridiculous amount of crap online retailers use to wrap their products ? Government needs to come down hard on this excessive waste.

The problem in this country, and to a certain extent within the EU, is that the government are trying to balance the views of the people that won't change ( look at the idiots that opposed the offshore windfarm ) with the views of the lunatic green fringe ( who also do themselves no favours with idiot ideas such as meat free Monday and how they ran B&H Council ). People need to change their habits ...... and fast. *** end of rant ***

I agree with a lot of what you say, but last time I talked to someone in Defra, they were moaning that Gove was opposing EU recycling targets as being too high. Their words 'saying one thing and doing another' :shrug:

*edit*

Sorry, just looked and they were opposing in Jan and backing them in April. But I bet they won't be a target when we leave.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/jan/24/uk-opposes-strong-eu-recycling-targets-despite-plastics-pledge

https://www.mrw.co.uk/latest/government-to-support-65-recycling-rate/10029751.article

Westdene Seagull said:
EDIT - and to link back yet again to this thread and one of [MENTION=15363]Plooks[/MENTION] rants, the previous generation aren't the only people to blame for the current environmental situation. For example, one of the worst offending groups in B&H for not recycling are students. Cityclean actually employee three people as student liason officers to try and correct their behaviour.

Thousands of kids in their first independent housing being given advice on recycling - I really struggle to see what is wrong with this

Gwylan · Oct 20, 2018

As Herr T is living it up in Prague, he may not have seen this little gem. But this Der Spiegel putting the boot in with some force.

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausla...ssbritannien-zum-trottel-macht-a-1233936.html

"A nation that can't even manage to find the way to the door, without tripping over its own feet."

And for anyone who wants to pipe up about whingeing lefties, this is a centre-right publication. It's a brutal hatchet job

EDIT: Just read up about the writer, he's very much on the right of politics

Westdene Seagull · Oct 20, 2018

WATFORD zero said:
Thousands of kids in their first independent housing being given advice on recycling - I really struggle to see what is wrong with this

Thousands of young adults who should already know better than to chuck recycling in the general waste costing the council taxpayer ( remembering they don't pay council tax ) THREE salaries.

WATFORD zero · Oct 20, 2018

Westdene Seagull said:
Thousands of young adults who should already know better than to chuck reccling in the general waste costing the council taxpayer ( remembering they don't pay council tax ) THREE salaries.

I'm not getting into a young/old argument.

You and Plooks have got that one sewn up :lolol:

Westdene Seagull · Oct 20, 2018

WATFORD zero said:
I'm not getting into a young/old argument.

You and Plooks have got that one sewn up

Remember, he also blames the country's ills on the retired as well :wink:

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