[Misc] The NHS

Sussex Nomad said:

Is it time to get rid, bring in a firm that can run our health system? Or should we stick with politicians that use it like a political football whilst people die? We could make it private with systems in hand to make it a proper health institution, or we could leave it as a political football to kick around. I would personal;ly like to see it dismantled from politicians, because, at the end of the day it just seems to get worse and worse and worse. We still pay our NHS but put it in the hands of business, people we can trust to give us a service. Am I wishing too much or is business a bit too scary to hand our health to? I know it's a bastion of socialism, but are we now taking on too much?

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drew said:

Really!!!

Regarding TTIP, your post was trying to suggest it was a foregone conclusion that the NHS would go when the deal went through which was far from the truth!

Any trade deal is signed off by the member states, not the commission. The commissioners are not elected but they are nominated by each member state, but then you already know that. The point I was making about the commission and the civil service were that they are the organisations that will be doing all the spade work for the negotiations. Both sides will then get their respective bosses to sign off on any agreement, the government on our side and the remaining 27 governments on the other side, but I guess you also know that.

You bang on about EU negotiations are far from the scrutiny of the HOP. Really. http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2006/december/tradoc_118238.pdf

Hopefully you can provide a link to the progress of any negotiations our government are currently engaged in?

Still, let's not sabotage this thread so you can post Brexit crap which it seems you can't do on the official thread!!!!

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Sussex Nomad said:

Is it time to get rid, bring in a firm that can run our health system? Or should we stick with politicians that use it like a political football whilst people die? We could make it private with systems in hand to make it a proper health institution, or we could leave it as a political football to kick around. I would personal;ly like to see it dismantled from politicians, because, at the end of the day it just seems to get worse and worse and worse. We still pay our NHS but put it in the hands of business, people we can trust to give us a service. Am I wishing too much or is business a bit too scary to hand our health to? I know it's a bastion of socialism, but are we now taking on too much?

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cunning fergus said:

I said with TTIP it “would almost certainly be privatised” and I stand by that because the EU is not FOR state assets, it is FOR the interest of big corporations. It is why the Tories took us in, and have campaigned twice to keep us in, with their chums from the IOD, CBI et al.

Unite commissioned a report into TTIP specifically on the impact on the NHS and they warned that there was no explicit carve out for the NHS. This was all taking place without a peep by politicians, aside from to his credit the likes of Corbyn.

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...vernment-is-reluctant-to-exempt-nhs-from-ttip

As we all know the Commission is the “executive” of the EU. It makes the law and decides where the EU spends its money. It should not be elected by other politicians, powerful people electing powerful people is a politburo........as a democratic construct it’s indensible.

https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/institutions-bodies/european-commission_en

But you know that.

These days I can only get on some threads, no one has told me why I cannot post, not had any infractions or messages.........so the NHS and despicable Tories threads it is. Happy days!

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cunning fergus said:

Well, that is yet to be proved, the point I am making is that Brexit if it is managed properly will mean that any Govt seeking to privatise the NHS will do so in full transparency in the HOP.

Trade deals done by the EU, are in contrast negotiated in the shadows, by the unelected Commission. It was in this environment that the U.K. would have had TTIP imposed on us, which is exactly why the establishment love the EU, i.e. less transparency and less accountability.

Equally, I am no Tory lover, but this b@llocks about only Labour being able to save the NHS is, well b@llocks. They are th3 political party that went bat sh!t crazy for PFI, loading liabilities of billions on the taxpayer for years to come. Of course if you were not a bigot you would appreciate this.........

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Blue3 said:

The Labour Governments of Blair and Brown did embrace PFI an idea first championed under the Tory Major Government a policy as you say that will have ramifications for years to come, so as I appreciate fact just like to say thank you for your retraction that I am indeed not a bigot after all

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drew said:

Just to clarify, are you arguing for a state owned NHS or a private system?

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Harry Wilson's tackle said:

Mate, stop starting threads. You seem to be having a bit of a time of it. Step back....

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cunning fergus said:

Do you think the interests of EU are to protect nationalised state assets or privatisation?

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nicko31 said:

Can see us moving to NHS essentials, and NHS premium you are going to pay for. Recent decisions from our nation, will expedite the process.

Maybe we all pay extra NI, and you get a healthy lifestyle rebate reward

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beorhthelm said:

like the Europeans seem to pay for their healthcare. mandatory insurance for basic, additional for additional and elective services. iirc France for example charge for fees for bed and food, fees for GP visits. we have broken the NHS ourselfs by insistence it's kept as originally planned, free at the point of use for all. which is really noble but bloody expensive. we must acknowledge some things fall outside that and have a insurance funded provision for others. that does not mean privatization necessarily, but if private providers can offer services efficiently let them. more important is to recognise additional funding, either several p on income tax or a new ring fenced healthcare insurance.

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beorhthelm said:

like the Europeans seem to pay for their healthcare. mandatory insurance for basic, additional for additional and elective services. iirc France for example charge for fees for bed and food, fees for GP visits. we have broken the NHS ourselfs by insistence it's kept as originally planned, free at the point of use for all. which is really noble but bloody expensive. we must acknowledge some things fall outside that and have a insurance funded provision for others. that does not mean privatization necessarily, but if private providers can offer services efficiently let them. more important is to recognise additional funding, either several p on income tax or a new ring fenced healthcare insurance.

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The Clamp said:

If our country was run better and rich people weren't given tax breaks we could afford the NHS in its original form.

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Herr Tubthumper said:

What’s the EU got to do with it? If a nation wants to have an industry run by their own government then they can just do it and protect it themselves.

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RexCathedra said:

By all means, privatize. You only need to look across the pond to the US' resounding success in this area.
We pay 2-3 times more per capita for no demonstrable improvement in outcomes.

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cunning fergus said:

Views that espouse the narrative that Tories are unequivocally evil therefore Labour are virtuous are systematic on these threads and are tiresome in their lack of balance. I don’t doubt the passion, but like those constantly whining about Trump, there is no balance. As it stands Trump has not deceived his electorate to launch an illegal war in some shithole country causing hundreds of thousands of deaths, displacing millions of people and inviting terrorism on the streets of the west. He may be reprehensible but he is not currently in the relegation zone in the heirachy of recent western leaders.

Your concern that the Tories want to privatise the NHS is well founded, they will do that on a salami slice basis because ideologically that is what they stand for. Unfortunately Labour’s position more broadly and in recent times has not been that far away. Much of that is due to Blair, after all he was the one that changed clause 4 in order to align the Labour Party with the interests of big business and the EU. For every post whining on here about Farage or Trump there should be 25 moaning about him.........despicable man.

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Lower West Stander said:

Try telling my partner who is an NHS ward sister to get rid.

See what response you get.....

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Herr Tubthumper said:

What’s the EU got to do with it? If a nation wants to have an industry run by their own government then they can just do it and protect it themselves.

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