Police office stabbed and assailant shot outside Parliament, Parliament in lockdown

JCL666 · Mar 24, 2017

Crawley 'Gull said:
You've ignored my last response to you?

Again it's bizarre you seem to label all religions as basically the same, I.e they've all got good bits all got bad bits and it's followers just chose which bits to follow. This is completely ignorant.

If you compare the life of Jesus to the life of Muhammad there is no comparison. Muhammad spoke violence against those who disagree with him and killed those that didn't submit to his teaching endorsed rape and paedophilla etc etc whereas Jesus spoke of Loving his enemies and laid down his life for others and encouraged his followers to do the same. Don't take my words for it - read up for it yourself!

It's not ignorant at all.

Try looking at the old testament. Genocide and extermination throughout.

there are plenty of examples of people who adhere to new testament teaching but preach violence. Anti abortionists and white supremacists in the usa?

There's another comment on this thread mentioned UK muslims views on homosexuality.

Have a look at the jehovahs witnesses and also orthodox judaism views on that.

Try russia where the russian orthordox church is the majority religion. I posted a link from pew research were around 74% of the population believed that homosexuality is not acceptable.

Crawley 'Gull · Mar 24, 2017

Bold Seagull said:
No, not all religions are basically the same, but how the followers can interpret them differently is the same. Why would I compare the lives of two largely fictional characters whom our only knowledge is contradicting accounts of disciples or ancient texts who worshipped them and thought they were prophets or the son of God? You can only have faith that Jesus spoke of loving his enemies and did what he did because of contradicting accounts, of 12 different people, who may or may not have existed themselves. Even the translations over the centuries have often been politically motivated. How many denominations has it splintered into because no one has ever agreed on the messages? If I picked up the bible tomorrow, my reading could be completely different to anyone else's. That is what I am saying, and I can assure, try as you might, it is far from ignorant.

But surely your point about whether Jesus actually said "Love your enemies "is a separate argument and irrelevant to our discussion. The point is, it's written in the Bible that Jesus said it and therefore christians follow this teaching. Some of the horrific things that the Koran Attribute to Muhammad, he may not have actually said but nevertheless it's in the Koran and comprise the teachings of Islam.

I agree that people can interpret the Bible in different ways however the main message of the Bible can only be interpreted one way. I have been involved with many different denominations in the UK and spent a lot of time with Christians from all across the world (from every continent!) and although certain things are done in different ways (due to different cultures etc) and there are slight differences in what people believe the core message of Christianity, i.e. the new life it brings and the way it transforms lives remains the same, regardless of culture, background etc.

On your separate point, There is more evidence that Jesus existed than most other historical figures, and there is absolutely no evidence to suggest the bibles meaning and message has changed at all. The dead sea scrolls is just one of thousands of examples to contradict this. Again, I am assuming you are making these statements without actually looking into it. Forgive me if I'm wrong!

Tyrone Biggums · Mar 24, 2017

Hamilton said:
My best mate is a committed Catholic. Just because the Catholic church was clearly riddled with problems when it came to issues like paedophilia, I didn't automatically think he was a danger to my children.

Saying there is 'zero place' is a very dangerous position to take.

The point was when the likes of Fry, Hitchens, Dawkins attacked the RC church certain elements cheered them on from the sidelines with great fervour. Now when the same was done to Islam in today's climate the atheists are turned upon and attacked themselves by many who were previously applauding their dialogue against the RC church.

It blows my mind that the most vocal support for an extreme right leaning ideology like Islam in western society comes from the left. Are people really that stupid and self unaware?

Tyrone Biggums · Mar 24, 2017

studio150 said:
So a mere two days after the Westminster attack and this thread has now descended into a religious bun fight of my god is better than your god and followers of your god must be banished from here.

Can we not accept that no religion is bad, there are only bad believers and everyone should be tolerate of others and offer friendship across the divide.

and for the avoidance of doubt I neither follow or believe in any god, but I never shun anyone for their beliefs.

Any religion that was born from a peaceful message or philosophy should in theory not be bad.

That however is not how Islam was born or how it was spread, it came from violence and oppression as a means to its end. If that is how you were created and expanded then absolutely a religion can be bad.

Bold Seagull · Mar 24, 2017

Tyrone Biggums said:
Any religion that was born from a peaceful message or philosophy should in theory not be bad.

That however is not how Islam was born or how it was spread, it came from violence and oppression as a means to its end. If that is how you were created and expanded then absolutely a religion can be bad.

How did Christianity not spring up from the oppression and tyranny of the Romans? The Life of Brian is after all as an accurate account as the Dead Sea scrolls.

Tyrone Biggums · Mar 25, 2017

Bold Seagull said:
How did Christianity not spring up from the oppression and tyranny of the Romans? The Life of Brian is after all as an accurate account as the Dead Sea scrolls.

The Christ story sees Jesus send forth a peaceful message from his disciples drawn from ordinary people. Muhammad's message was sent forth by an army willing to kill all who opposed it.

The basis of their actions and messages was vastly different from the beginning.

knocky1 · Mar 25, 2017

Tyrone Biggums said:
It blows my mind that the most vocal support for an extreme right leaning ideology like Islam in western society comes from the left. Are people really that stupid and self unaware?

Tolerance and support are diverse. To answer your question visit the American Christian mid states.

Psychobilly freakout · Mar 25, 2017

Religion the route of all evil.

Tyrone Biggums · Mar 25, 2017

Psychobilly freakout said:
Religion the route of all evil.

And yet the largest losses of life due to conflict had nothing to do with religion. China and the USSR seemed to do quite fine in the evil stakes without religion present.

Tyrone Biggums · Mar 25, 2017

knocky1 said:
Tolerance and support are diverse. To answer your question visit the American Christian mid states.

American Christian mid states are confined to the American Christian mid states, unlike the global spread of Islam. Confine them to small areas and they tend to impact less people outside of their own areas.

Baldseagull · Mar 25, 2017

Tyrone Biggums said:
The point was when the likes of Fry, Hitchens, Dawkins attacked the RC church certain elements cheered them on from the sidelines with great fervour. Now when the same was done to Islam in today's climate the atheists are turned upon and attacked themselves by many who were previously applauding their dialogue against the RC church.

It blows my mind that the most vocal support for an extreme right leaning ideology like Islam in western society comes from the left. Are people really that stupid and self unaware?

There are different takes on Islam and the one that seems to be behind most of the extremists is Wahhabism, I am happy to condemn the people who promote this hardline version of the ideology, but not all muslims.

BadFish · Mar 25, 2017

Baldseagull said:
There are different takes on Islam and the one that seems to be behind most of the extremists is Wahhabism, I am happy to condemn the people who promote this hardline version of the ideology, but not all muslims.

Yep.

OzMike · Mar 25, 2017

The Islamist's who carry out these attacks are not doing their religion and nations any favours and it keeps spreading.
They may be nut jobs wanting their 15 mins of fame, but it is always in the religions name.
There may be a return to the 'Crusades' era, ending up in a massive holy war, which has been predicted for centuries.

Westdene Seagull · Mar 25, 2017

studio150 said:
So a mere two days after the Westminster attack and this thread has now descended into a religious bun fight of my god is better than your god and followers of your god must be banished from here.

Can we not accept that no religion is bad, there are only bad believers and everyone should be tolerate of others and offer friendship across the divide.

and for the avoidance of doubt I neither follow or believe in any god, but I never shun anyone for their beliefs.

Or we could just say that most religions are bad because you've got to be a bit bonkers to believe in some invincible sky fairy ?

Anyway, got to go, it's time to play with my unicorns and pixies at the bottom of my garden.

Tyrone Biggums · Mar 26, 2017

Baldseagull said:
There are different takes on Islam and the one that seems to be behind most of the extremists is Wahhabism, I am happy to condemn the people who promote this hardline version of the ideology, but not all muslims.

It's the fact that Islam is still growing in 2017 that says it all.

Most other religions are declining in numbers as people move away from religion into either mindsets of agnosticism or atheism.

Yet despite all the negativity and horrific acts associated with Islam it still grows in numbers.

Why is there no exodus of Muslims from Islam like other religions have experienced when those religions were involved in scandals etc?

To me that suggests even the "moderates" are fanatical followers when push comes to shove.

Baldseagull · Mar 26, 2017

Tyrone Biggums said:
It's the fact that Islam is still growing in 2017 that says it all.

Most other religions are declining in numbers as people move away from religion into either mindsets of agnosticism or atheism.

Yet despite all the negativity and horrific acts associated with Islam it still grows in numbers.

Why is there no exodus of Muslims from Islam like other religions have experienced when those religions were involved in scandals etc?

To me that suggests even the "moderates" are fanatical followers when push comes to shove.

There is no official church of Islam, there are two main sects, but within that there are further distinctions, and within those, different Imams have different takes, and within that different muslims take different meaning.
If a Palace fan went and stabbed a copper to death in the name of football fans, would you stop supporting Brighton?

I am not so sure it is rising in numbers either, I expect Catholics have risen faster in the UK lately, most Polish are Catholic. If you mean world wide, then I doubt they are rising in numbers faster than the average birth rate for the world, they seem to be dying in war zones more than most.

Religion is fanatical, both those who take the peaceful messages and those who take the violent messages and act on them, are fanatical. There are many more British muslims involved in charity work and aid than are thinking about attacking unbelievers.

BadFish · Mar 26, 2017

Tyrone Biggums said:
It's the fact that Islam is still growing in 2017 that says it all.

Most other religions are declining in numbers as people move away from religion into either mindsets of agnosticism or atheism.

Yet despite all the negativity and horrific acts associated with Islam it still grows in numbers.

Why is there no exodus of Muslims from Islam like other religions have experienced when those religions were involved in scandals etc?

To me that suggests even the "moderates" are fanatical followers when push comes to shove.

Without really knowing how you define "push comes to shove" I would suggest the all religious people would be fanatical when it comes to it?

JCL666 · Mar 26, 2017

Tyrone Biggums said:
Any religion that was born from a peaceful message or philosophy should in theory not be bad.

That however is not how Islam was born or how it was spread, it came from violence and oppression as a means to its end. If that is how you were created and expanded then absolutely a religion can be bad.

That's a lovely idea but just doesn't stand up under scrutiny. Pretty much all religions have been involved in violence or aggression of some kind.

Even Buddhism: Look up buddhist nationalism in sri lanka or burma/myanmar.

Blues Rock DJ · Mar 26, 2017

am leaning towards thinking this was a violent nutter, making a name for himself.

East Preston Gull · Mar 26, 2017

Blues Rock DJ said:
am leaning towards thinking this was a violent nutter, making a name for himself.

A violent nutter would have stolen a car nearby and smashed it into any random Street with pedestrians. This guy hired a car, went on a jolly in Brighton for the day and drove into the most famous building in the world, the home of Western style democracy. This was not an online radicalised youth, this was a 52 yr old man with life experience.

We keep apologising for these people and they laugh at us!

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Police office stabbed and assailant shot outside Parliament, Parliament in lockdown

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