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Nicola Sturgeon



WOW SOTW, you do write some corkers !

The turn out for this referendum, os going to be MASSIVE, how much more democratic would you like it to be ?
As we are effectively subsidising the Scots, why is anybody South of the Border, bothering belatedly, to campaign for a no vote. Let them go and we save some money ? or is it just that they are trying to steal "our" oil ?
Are all 16 year olds, utterly clueless, or is this a specific Scottish affliction ?
What level of turn out would it need for German students, to be able to make a concerted effort to swing the vote ? I estimate it would have to be around 2%, what figure would you guess ?

I agree that's it's been, in the main, a very democratic process (although the recent reports of intimidation are a bit worrying, albeit probably overblown). However it's clear that the eligibility criteria that have been agreed do very much favour the 'Yes' camp. There are reasons for some choices (e.g. it's very hard to locate Scots living in rUK) but others are clearly just about reinforcing the independence vote (e.g. allowing 16 and 17 year olds to vote).

Scottish independence would have a negative impact on both Scotland and rUK, at least in the short term. If nothing else, it generates uncertainty (which markets don't like). It also creates transaction costs between Scotland and rUK that don't exist currently. The costs to Scotland are clear - they'd have to create many of the instruments of government that they don't currently have, they'd have to work out what currency they were going to use (and how, and at what cost), they'd have to work out how to fund public services without subsidies from rUK.

The issue I have with the 'Yes' campaign is that they are constantly spouting nonsense as if it is fact.. Their economic plans are a shambles and they repeatedly trot out lies (e.g. currency union). They've largely made their economic case in the same way that man-made climate change deniers make theirs - by a combination of shouting loudly, trying to make out that there is far more debate about likely outcomes than there is, and accusing the opposition of being shills. If they'd said something along the lines of 'The economic outcomes are uncertain, but there are likely to be costs to independence. However we think that's a price worth paying for increased self-determination of our futures and the long-term opportunities it would afford.' then I'd have a great deal of respect for them and wish them well at the polls (even though I still wouldn't want them to go).
 




Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
30,636
The most worrying thing about YES is their assertion that if they are denied a currency union then they will wash their hands of their share of the UK's debt.

This campaign has highlighted how little attention to detail is applied to key issues. If Scotland DOES walk away from their approx. 10% of the national debt then that has big implications for the rest of us. Why have the politicians not been pinned down on this key question?
 


Yoda

English & European
Sadly, when it comes to politics the answer is 95% yes, and that stands for all UK nationalities.

Have to agree with this, I didn't have a clue about who or what I was voting for at the polls until I left home (and I was 25 when I did that).

Only started to take any interest in it then as it was directly effecting me.
 


Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
30,636
When it comes to Nicola Sturgeon my pole says NO.
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,332
apparently the 16/17 yo vote has followed the general trend, they haven't gone for independence en mass as expected.
 




nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
17,649
Gods country fortnightly
apparently the 16/17 yo vote has followed the general trend, they haven't gone for independence en mass as expected.

Its pretty obvious younger people are more likely to vote for change. Pure complacency from Cameron allowing the 16 & 17 year olds to vote.

So not only could our 300 year old union be destroyed by 2.5% of the UK population but it will have been due to a crazy decision to give this concession.
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,332
Its pretty obvious younger people are more likely to vote for change. Pure complacency from Cameron allowing the 16 & 17 year olds to vote.

no, this is precisely not what is being predicted from polling. one early poll was 60/20/20 no/yes/dont know. something i heard/read last week was their voting intention is along the same social/economic/geographical lines as the adults.
 










Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 25, 2011
64,322
Withdean area
On Newsnight tonight, there was a 'below the belt' comment from a No voter, slagging off Sturgeon (and Salmond) for their constant talk of independence for the children, when neither has kids of their own.

I'm really surprised that Sturgeon isn't happily settled with a very lucky man, and offspring.
 




Dowling93

New member
Jun 22, 2009
622
Brighton
Did anyone watch the debate on Channel 4? The guy that suggested a voting app for things like a national anthem, I can see there being some vote rigging going on!
 


drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
23,074
Burgess Hill
I agree that's it's been, in the main, a very democratic process (although the recent reports of intimidation are a bit worrying, albeit probably overblown). However it's clear that the eligibility criteria that have been agreed do very much favour the 'Yes' camp. There are reasons for some choices (e.g. it's very hard to locate Scots living in rUK) but others are clearly just about reinforcing the independence vote (e.g. allowing 16 and 17 year olds to vote).

Scottish independence would have a negative impact on both Scotland and rUK, at least in the short term. If nothing else, it generates uncertainty (which markets don't like). It also creates transaction costs between Scotland and rUK that don't exist currently. The costs to Scotland are clear - they'd have to create many of the instruments of government that they don't currently have, they'd have to work out what currency they were going to use (and how, and at what cost), they'd have to work out how to fund public services without subsidies from rUK.

The issue I have with the 'Yes' campaign is that they are constantly spouting nonsense as if it is fact.. Their economic plans are a shambles and they repeatedly trot out lies (e.g. currency union). They've largely made their economic case in the same way that man-made climate change deniers make theirs - by a combination of shouting loudly, trying to make out that there is far more debate about likely outcomes than there is, and accusing the opposition of being shills. If they'd said something along the lines of 'The economic outcomes are uncertain, but there are likely to be costs to independence. However we think that's a price worth paying for increased self-determination of our futures and the long-term opportunities it would afford.' then I'd have a great deal of respect for them and wish them well at the polls (even though I still wouldn't want them to go).

Well I have to agree with this. Salmond has batted away any questions he doesn't like, which tend to be the questions concerning economics. He is a good orator and that makes him appear better than the likes of Darling but I pity anyone that votes based on the personalities. Vote for independence for right reasons, but not because you believe the utter-rings of egotistical Salmond.
 


happypig

Staring at the rude boys
May 23, 2009
7,974
Eastbourne
The most worrying thing about YES is their assertion that if they are denied a currency union then they will wash their hands of their share of the UK's debt.

This campaign has highlighted how little attention to detail is applied to key issues. If Scotland DOES walk away from their approx. 10% of the national debt then that has big implications for the rest of us. Why have the politicians not been pinned down on this key question?

I wonder if this will affect their credit rating; effectively a new country and just welched on monies owed, would you lend at a favourable rate ? I wouldn't. In credit terms they will be a Ginger Zimbabwe.
 




Seagull73

Sienna's Heaven
Jul 26, 2003
3,382
Not Lewes
On Newsnight tonight, there was a 'below the belt' comment from a No voter, slagging off Sturgeon (and Salmond) for their constant talk of independence for the children, when neither has kids of their own.

I'm really surprised that Sturgeon isn't happily settled with a very lucky man, and offspring.

She won't meet that Man until she shaves her feet.

Her and Salmond deserve each other, vile peasants.
 


edna krabappel

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 7, 2003
47,225
Did anyone watch the debate on Channel 4? The guy that suggested a voting app for things like a national anthem, I can see there being some vote rigging going on!

I vote "Donald Where's Yer Troosers".
 


edna krabappel

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 7, 2003
47,225
I wonder if this will affect their credit rating; effectively a new country and just welched on monies owed, would you lend at a favourable rate ? I wouldn't. In credit terms they will be a Ginger Zimbabwe.

That's the crux of it. Various financial boffins have said this week that if Scotland does just that, ie walks away from its share of UK debt in protest at not being allowed a currency union, then they will be viewed as similar to a country that defaults, and will thus be given a "junk" credit rating.
 


sparkie

Well-known member
Jul 17, 2003
12,543
Hove
She does irritate me a lot. I look forward to hearing less from her once this referendum is out of the way.
 






Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
30,636


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