Paul Barber on communication, transparency, finances, the fans and club staff

Publius Ovidius · Oct 17, 2014

El Presidente said:
In each of the last two seasons we were 180 minutes from the Premier League under broadly similar circumstances .

Parachute payments don't help, but they are a double edged sword. This is because relegated clubs have committed to paying PL wages to players who, by definition, aren't good enough for the PL. Zigic at Birmingham on £50 a week, Barton at QPR on £70k a week, O'Hara in the reserves at League 1 Wolves on £35k a week come to mind.

Having less money doesn't prevent you being promoted. Palace and Burnley have done it in last two seasons, Derby and Watford both made the play-off finals.

Having money does increase the probability of a higher finish though, but there is always a random element in football, and that turns up the unexpected.

Too many people IMO equate tickets sold with total revenue, at the Albion it's 51%, but for relegated clubs it might only be 20% due to parachute payments.

I am not sure that answers my question. So let's take a hypothetical case. A director is recruited called say Sheik abdullah and as part of his remit, he puts in £50 million, as purchase of shares that he has earmarked to use on players to get to the Premiership. Are you suggesting, or not you specifically, that for FFP this will not be allowed? What I was getting at is how do clubs raise funds to mount a challenge if FFP a doesn't allow this sort of investment?

drew · Oct 17, 2014

granny weatherwax said:
I am not sure that answers my question. So let's take a hypothetical case. A director is recruited called say Sheik abdullah and as part of his remit, he puts in £50 million, as purchase of shares that he has earmarked to use on players to get to the Premiership. Are you suggesting, or not you specifically, that for FFP this will not be allowed? What I was getting at is how do clubs raise funds to mount a challenge if FFP a doesn't allow this sort of investment?

The answer to your question is, as I understand it, you can't have that sort of injection of cash. Once FFP is bedded in and we have seen the first round of sanctions, then we may all have a better understanding of how it is going to work.

Tim Over Whelmed · Oct 17, 2014

swervy_123 said:
It's all relevant, state of the art stadium fantastic, training ground brilliant, multi award winning projects great but they all cost a vast amount of money,but it's the players who get you to the promised land and the multi millions that are generated at that level , not everyone will agree with me but the feel good factor has well gone which is a great shame and that's because of what's happened on the pitch, that controls the destiny of which way a club is heading.

or said Academy find a couple of Luke Shaw's over the next couple of years and it suddenly makes a lot of sense?

Hotchilidog · Oct 17, 2014

Tony Meolas Loan Spell said:
It leaves us with the question how was a proven championship goalscorer allowed to be snapped up on loan to Reading when he lives in Brighton

why oh why did we not sign Sir Glenn again.

Presumably because the Albion did not fancy him. Sadly Glenn not coming back is more likely to be a football decision rather than a financial one. I do not think PB could be blamed for this decision.

Rogero · Oct 17, 2014

A couple of good wins and everyone will be a lot happier. I think PB is good. One thing I read was that Brighton pay their board members more than every other club in the Championship .I feel a little uncomfortable about that.

hans kraay fan club · Oct 17, 2014

Rogero said:
I think PB is good.

Rogero said:
I read that Brighton pay their board members more than every other club in the Championship .I feel a little uncomfortable about that.

Barber's own salary is almost exclusively responsible for that. You get what you pay for, I guess...

GT49er · Oct 17, 2014

Miami Seagull said:
My son is visiting. He has lived in Vancouver since 2004, where Paul Barber was previously employed. We've been reading this thread with interest and he pointed me in the direction of the following article at the end of my post which was written after Paul left the Whitecaps. Before we get to that I do want to say that, as far as I am concerned, the jury remains out on his tenure at our club. I don't buy the "My style, supported by Tony and the Board, is to be as open and as transparent as I can possibly be" line. It is not backed up by his previous employment, in my opinion. I believe this 'style' is a requirement of the Board, due to the reasons that he laid out in his communication above. I don't like the big rises in costs of food and beverages at the ground that have never been justified. I didn't buy the answer to my own question at the fan forum in August regarding season ticket numbers ("every club is losing 7% of their fanbase each year as people move away" etc...). More people move to this area than move away each year. The reason for the reduction in season ticket holders was because of the lack of entertainment throughout last year, another summer of turmoil, increased matchday costs, and the failure to replace our best players who were sold in January and over the summer. I don't like the fact that the club refuse to accept that the summer transfer window (and, for that matter, the last January window too) was a cluster that resulted in SH having to start the season with shackles. Admit it didn't go well and tell us everyone will work to ensure it is not repeated again. That would be transparent. The best clubs in this division had their teams ready for early August. We didn't. The best teams didn't weaken their squads in January. We did.

All that said, you may be surprised to hear that I am encouraged by much of what Paul has achieved at the club. He has successfully increased our corporate sponsorship, listened to fans regarding the first catering firm's issues and I believe he has prepared the club well in many ways (yes, PLR) to take the next step. But I struggle to accept his, or anyone else's word for that matter, about their own achievements - in particular when it has anything to do with our club - without some due diligence and perspective.

Purely for purposes of balance, take a look at the following article. There are enough similarities between what we have seen in Paul and what this article is saying that I do give it some credence. I just hope that in a few years time we are not looking back on his tenure at the club in the same way. Only time will tell.

http://aftncanada.blogspot.co.uk/2011/12/paul-barber-he-came-he-saw-he-failed.html?m=1

Interesting read.

Miami Seagull · Oct 17, 2014

GT49er said:
Interesting read.

Yes, very interesting. Some good humour in there too!

Prince Monolulu · Oct 17, 2014

Miami Seagull said:
My son is visiting. He has lived in Vancouver since 2004, where Paul Barber was previously employed. We've been reading this thread with interest and he pointed me in the direction of the following article at the end of my post which was written after Paul left the Whitecaps. Before we get to that I do want to say that, as far as I am concerned, the jury remains out on his tenure at our club. I don't buy the "My style, supported by Tony and the Board, is to be as open and as transparent as I can possibly be" line. It is not backed up by his previous employment, in my opinion. I believe this 'style' is a requirement of the Board, due to the reasons that he laid out in his communication above. I don't like the big rises in costs of food and beverages at the ground that have never been justified. I didn't buy the answer to my own question at the fan forum in August regarding season ticket numbers ("every club is losing 7% of their fanbase each year as people move away" etc...). More people move to this area than move away each year. The reason for the reduction in season ticket holders was because of the lack of entertainment throughout last year, another summer of turmoil, increased matchday costs, and the failure to replace our best players who were sold in January and over the summer. I don't like the fact that the club refuse to accept that the summer transfer window (and, for that matter, the last January window too) was a cluster that resulted in SH having to start the season with shackles. Admit it didn't go well and tell us everyone will work to ensure it is not repeated again. That would be transparent. The best clubs in this division had their teams ready for early August. We didn't. The best teams didn't weaken their squads in January. We did.

All that said, you may be surprised to hear that I am encouraged by much of what Paul has achieved at the club. He has successfully increased our corporate sponsorship, listened to fans regarding the first catering firm's issues and I believe he has prepared the club well in many ways (yes, PLR) to take the next step. But I struggle to accept his, or anyone else's word for that matter, about their own achievements - in particular when it has anything to do with our club - without some due diligence and perspective.

Purely for purposes of balance, take a look at the following article. There are enough similarities between what we have seen in Paul and what this article is saying that I do give it some credence. I just hope that in a few years time we are not looking back on his tenure at the club in the same way. Only time will tell.

http://aftncanada.blogspot.co.uk/2011/12/paul-barber-he-came-he-saw-he-failed.html?m=1

Very interesting, and ironic the reference to OFaH. Sure he got the right Paul Barber?!

El Presidente · Oct 17, 2014

granny weatherwax said:
I am not sure that answers my question. So let's take a hypothetical case. A director is recruited called say Sheik abdullah and as part of his remit, he puts in £50 million, as purchase of shares that he has earmarked to use on players to get to the Premiership. Are you suggesting, or not you specifically, that for FFP this will not be allowed? What I was getting at is how do clubs raise funds to mount a challenge if FFP a doesn't allow this sort of investment?

If Sheik ERNEST puts in £50 million that would be allowed. However, should the club make operational losses that exceed the FFP limits, and this is likely as the player(s) signed is/are likely to be paid considerable sums, combined with the amortisation of the signing fees, then the FFP penalties will kick in.

Raising funds isn't the issue, FFP is a profit rather than an equity based financial metric.

What will happen with QPR over the next few months, especially if they cement their position in the relegation zone, will be intriguing. Expect to see either a very expensive legal battle or a compromise between them and the FL.

El Presidente · Oct 17, 2014

hans kraay fan club said:
Barber's own salary is almost exclusively responsible for that. You get what you pay for, I guess...

I think that a lot of the sum paid is bonus based, sadly the accounts don't reveal more than the gross figure.

spanish flair · Oct 17, 2014

Miami Seagull said:
My son is visiting. He has lived in Vancouver since 2004, where Paul Barber was previously employed. We've been reading this thread with interest and he pointed me in the direction of the following article at the end of my post which was written after Paul left the Whitecaps. Before we get to that I do want to say that, as far as I am concerned, the jury remains out on his tenure at our club. I don't buy the "My style, supported by Tony and the Board, is to be as open and as transparent as I can possibly be" line. It is not backed up by his previous employment, in my opinion. I believe this 'style' is a requirement of the Board, due to the reasons that he laid out in his communication above. I don't like the big rises in costs of food and beverages at the ground that have never been justified. I didn't buy the answer to my own question at the fan forum in August regarding season ticket numbers ("every club is losing 7% of their fanbase each year as people move away" etc...). More people move to this area than move away each year. The reason for the reduction in season ticket holders was because of the lack of entertainment throughout last year, another summer of turmoil, increased matchday costs, and the failure to replace our best players who were sold in January and over the summer. I don't like the fact that the club refuse to accept that the summer transfer window (and, for that matter, the last January window too) was a cluster that resulted in SH having to start the season with shackles. Admit it didn't go well and tell us everyone will work to ensure it is not repeated again. That would be transparent. The best clubs in this division had their teams ready for early August. We didn't. The best teams didn't weaken their squads in January. We did.

All that said, you may be surprised to hear that I am encouraged by much of what Paul has achieved at the club. He has successfully increased our corporate sponsorship, listened to fans regarding the first catering firm's issues and I believe he has prepared the club well in many ways (yes, PLR) to take the next step. But I struggle to accept his, or anyone else's word for that matter, about their own achievements - in particular when it has anything to do with our club - without some due diligence and perspective.

Purely for purposes of balance, take a look at the following article. There are enough similarities between what we have seen in Paul and what this article is saying that I do give it some credence. I just hope that in a few years time we are not looking back on his tenure at the club in the same way. Only time will tell.

http://aftncanada.blogspot.co.uk/2011/12/paul-barber-he-came-he-saw-he-failed.html?m=1

Very interesting blog and I do see the similarities especially this quote, with the news of his resignation, " And we're clearly not alone. When two ex Whitecaps front office employees post on the Southsiders forum that they are pleased with the news and think it is the best thing for the Club, adding "Trust me, the people in the office are thrilled", I think that is very telling"

We have had one poster on here who either worked or works at the Amex, who did not have a very high opinion of him.

Publius Ovidius · Oct 17, 2014

El Presidente said:
If Sheik ERNEST puts in £50 million that would be allowed. However, should the club make operational losses that exceed the FFP limits, and this is likely as the player(s) signed is/are likely to be paid considerable sums, combined with the amortisation of the signing fees, then the FFP penalties will kick in.

Raising funds isn't the issue, FFP is a profit rather than an equity based financial metric.

What will happen with QPR over the next few months, especially if they cement their position in the relegation zone, will be intriguing. Expect to see either a very expensive legal battle or a compromise between them and the FL.

A QPR supporting mate says that they have heard on the grapevine that if they are relegated, and the FFP rules kick in, the football league will not accept them and they will have to start again in the conference.

I can't see it, but he thinks that the owners will spend stupid money in January to try and keep them up.

Man of Harveys · Oct 17, 2014

From Miami Seagull's post above, in case anyone didn't click the link either out of laziness or from preferring to stick their fingers in their ears and close their eyes. Warning to the hypersensitive: it's written pretty brutally/honestly/delete where appropriate.

"Barber often came across to us being so full of hot air that we often checked his shoes to see if they were tethered to the ground to stop him floating away. All mouth and no trousers, as the English expression would have it.

He was the master of spin, no doubt instilled in him from his career in public relations, media relations and communications. He clearly missed out on what I'm sure would have been a very successful career in politics.

Whenever things went wrong in the FO or on the pitch, Barber always had a cheery, positive response. Things were never as bad as they seemed. Whenever people, like the Southsiders, raised concerns about issues, there were always emails from people sent to him with the opposite view.

What frustrated us more than anything was that the local media never called him out on his failings or the Caps string of clusterf**ks.

There is no doubt that Barber had successes with the Caps.

He brought in an amazing amount of sponsors and money to the Club. He helped establish a 15,000+ season ticket base and helped the Club make two tricky, but smooth, transitions to two new stadiums in one season. He was also good at replying personally, and quickly, to fan emails.

We sincerely applaud him for all of that.

He helped build the Whitecaps brand into a corporate MLS monster, envied by many of our peers. Again, we grudgingly accept such things as a necessary evil.

We're not sure where all the money went. The fans saw little reward, as we covered previously, and it certainly didn't bring big name, quality players to Vancouver or help put a winning team on the pitch."

spanish flair said:
We have had one poster on here who either worked or works at the Amex, who did not have a very high opinion of him.

Gus Poyet and Oscar Garcia post on here? :fishing:

spanish flair · Oct 17, 2014

Man of Harveys:Gus Poyet and Oscar Garcia post on here? :fishing:[/QUOTE said:
Well you don't know who hides behind some of the posters names, but if I remember correctly, this poster worked in the AITC and was Seagull7 something.

AZ Gull · Oct 17, 2014

spanish flair said:
Well you don't know who hides behind some of the posters names, but if I remember correctly, this poster worked in the AITC and was Seagull7 something.

[MENTION=647]Seagull73[/MENTION] I believe (although I thought they had a relative who worked at the club, rather than working at the club themselves).

Bozza · Oct 17, 2014

Questions raised on this thread have been answered here: http://www.northstandchat.com/showt...ment-Catering-Finances-and-Supporter-Dialogue

Seagull73 · Oct 17, 2014

AZ Gull said:
[MENTION=647]Seagull73[/MENTION] I believe (although I thought they had a relative who worked at the club, rather than working at the club themselves).

I did do some work for AITC a little while ago, and yes the similarities between what the stuff at Vancouver apparently thought of him, and what the current employees (well those there at the time) generally think / thought of him are, shall we say, interesting.

But my opinions of him are well known so I will leave it there. I can't be arsed with Hans Kraay chasing me down, like some drug-crazed smackhead looking for his next fix, in pursuit of an argument.

spanish flair · Oct 18, 2014

Seagull73 said:
I did do some work for AITC a little while ago, and yes the similarities between what the stuff at Vancouver apparently thought of him, and what the current employees (well those there at the time) generally think / thought of him are, shall we say, interesting.

But my opinions of him are well known so I will leave it there. I can't be arsed with Hans Kraay chasing me down, like some drug-crazed smackhead looking for his next fix, in pursuit of an argument.

Thank you for confirming my post and if Hans Kraay chases you down in future, don't argue with him just point him to the above blog. After all Leopards do not change their spots.

I also loved the bit in the article where they state "he talks the talk but does not walk the walk", which backs up the many times you have stated this about him.

KZNSeagull · Oct 18, 2014

That is an interesting blog. Can it be used to compare apples with apples though? Was his remit there the same as it is here? For example:

They blame him for the failings on the pitch, but perhaps that was little to do with him as it is at our club?
They praise him for bringing loads of sponsors to the club which is one of his main responsibilities with us.
They complain that some staff were upset, but then any CEO bought in to cut costs is BOUND to upset some staff.

THe CEO of any company is not going to please everybody all of the time. If they did, they would not be doing their jobs properly.

That blog is an interesting read but that is all it is. If it was an article published by a journalist in a newspaper then that may be different, but I would not base any judgement of PB on it.

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