[Albion] Are you OK with TB’s long term ambitions for the Albion?

Pavilionaire · May 12, 2018

Every season in the Prem there are basket case teams and 8 or 9 managerial sackings, and survival means finishing above just three of them. That means two that come up and one Prem weakling on a downward spiral.

Any club that is well run can sustain a long run in the Prem, but it takes continuous hard work on the recruitment side. We need to keep our identity and when players and managers come and go we must recruit those of a similar mindset.

The club gets criticised by some for re - signing old players but that is a two way thing and those players know about the identity and culture of this club and how strong it is. Not only do I expect Dunk to leave but I also expect him to return too.

Thunder Bolt · May 12, 2018

Guinness Boy said:
A serious suggestion made to a friend last weekend when we were in the pub and then posted on the Brighton Away Days Facebook group the day after with loads of replies, most negative.

View attachment 96843

Ah, just one nutter then. We've all got them.

Guinness Boy · May 12, 2018

Triggaaar said:
Surely that was a wind up? If not, said individuals should be put in their place. Individuals being the key point, I'm sure that's not how most of us feel.

Could be an individual - in fact probably no more than one or two people may have suggested it - but not a wind up. The bloke who posted it on the Facebook group is a big Brighton fan judging from his FB pictures. My wider point was it was symptomatic of an attitude we need to adjust slightly. Giving Toure a guard of honour was classy but some of our fans applauding his every touch went too far. At Arsenal the players were wandering round in awe taking selfies. Against Chelsea we changed our style to accommodate them and got battered, score wise at least, though we had some good moments. That sort of thing

Thunder Bolt · May 12, 2018

Billy the Fish said:
Almost every club had a glass ceiling. Ours is that if we get too good the bigger clubs will buy or best players, this is exactly what happened to Southampton over the last two years. We will most likely have to constantly rebuild and when that happens we'll always be one bad transfer window away from trouble.

I remember a couple of years ago talking to a friend, who is STH at spurs, about how difficult is was for them to break into the top 4. If they got too good then Real Madrid or Utd just nicked their best players and they were back too square one.

We will never be part of the elite group. The stars might align every now and again like they have for Burnley this year, but it's equally as likely that we have a bad transfer window and get relegated.

All we can do is enjoy the ride.

Injuries can play a big part in a season. We have been lucky in that respect.

Thunder Bolt · May 12, 2018

Guinness Boy said:
Could be an individual - in fact probably no more than one or two people may have suggested it - but not a wind up. The bloke who posted it on the Facebook group is a big Brighton fan judging from his FB pictures. My wider point was it was symptomatic of an attitude we need to adjust slightly. Giving Toure a guard of honour was classy but some of our fans applauding his every touch went too far. At Arsenal the players were wandering round in awe taking selfies. Against Chelsea we changed our style to accommodate them and got battered, score wise at least, though we had some good moments. That sort of thing

I thought the guard of honour was for Man City winning the championship, not Toure. Our team had left the pitch when he came out for his presentation.

Stat Brother · May 12, 2018

Billy the Fish said:
Almost every club had a glass ceiling. Ours is that if we get too good the bigger clubs will buy or best players, this is exactly what happened to Southampton over the last two years. We will most likely have to constantly rebuild and when that happens we'll always be one bad transfer window away from trouble.

I remember a couple of years ago talking to a friend, who is STH at spurs, about how difficult is was for them to break into the top 4. If they got too good then Real Madrid or Utd just nicked their best players and they were back too square one.

We will never be part of the elite group. The stars might align every now and again like they have for Burnley this year, but it's equally as likely that we have a bad transfer window and get relegated.

All we can do is enjoy the ride.

I think there's every possibility the stars will align for a 'lesser' club, more often in the coming seasons.
The question is which ones will be in the position to take advantage.

Any team can have a bad transfer window, managerial appointment, boardroom disruption etc.
The only difference is those lesser clubs are no longer (with the exception of palace) playing hoofball in a derelict *cough* stadium, with a prefab outbuilding for a training *cough* facility.

They've all cashed in to the tune of £100's millions they can *cough* all attract high quality players.
Every season one of us will get the mix right, and a la Arsenal this season at least one of them will get it wrong.

Wardy's twin · May 12, 2018

Triggaaar said:
I think you're jumping to conclusions. We are still a new side, we would still expect to be in a relegation scrap next season, and Tony probably doesn't want to get ahead of himself. Bit silly him talking of big ambitions now when we need to ready ourselves for another fight next season.

If we do stay up for some years, I think the playing budget will reflect that, and we'll aim higher - but we'll do it while still knowing that the most important thing is to stay up, because that's what brings in the money to keep us going long term.

I agree, I think the next few years will (hopefully) see incremental improvements as we become established and can think about the next steps. Enjoy the journey.

El Presidente · May 12, 2018

Goldstone1976 said:
“Forever” doesn’t mean forever?

.

I’ve spotted your obscure link to Elvis Costello’s brilliant Riot Act and claim my prize

Triggaaar · May 12, 2018

Goldstone1976 said:
Based on what?

Twice in the last month, TB has said that he thinks the goal will be to stay up “forever”. He’s also said he hopes for a(nother) good cup run and would like to hope that we can finish higher up the league - but a goal of avoiding relegation “forever” does not carry the same cost implications as incrementally improving our strength over a decade.

It can carry the same cost implications. It might, or it might not. Just because staying up is the primary objective does not mean he's not willing to invest to push a lot higher.

Goldstone1976 said:
Fair enough - but see my reply (post 22) to a similar point made earlier.

Alright, I'm on it.

Goldstone1976 said:
Ok - so if TB feels the same, why didn’t he say so? He could have said “Look, the PL is really tough - our first goal is to get as established as anyone can (look at Stoke for a dose of realism). That is likely to take several years. It’s pointless looking further forward than that, so I won’t”?

But he didn’t. He’s said that our goal is to avoid relegation “forever”. Twice.

As I've already said, what he means by that and what you take from it are not necessarily the same thing. It's quite possible for him to keep the revenue going back into the club, and pushing forward year on year, whilst still being sensible and aware of the risks inherent in football.

Also note the Tony himself doesn't know how he'll feel if we manage to stay up for the next 5 years - he doesn't know if he'll be loving it or wishing for better.

Personally, I think he’s sending a very clear message about levels of further investment.

Let's hope you're wrong

but we’re not going to fund anything more than what we need to try to stay up.

I'm sure that's not what he means.

Personally, I’m ok with this - but the way I read the message is that we have now pretty much “hit the ceiling” in terms of investment...

We may have hit the ceiling in terms of what he wants to put in - indeed he may want some back - but bear in mind that due to the tv money he wouldn't have to invest his own money for us to keep spending more on players etc.

Not Andy Naylor · May 12, 2018

Bozza said:
Long before this season's fixtures were spat out of the computer, I speculated that we'd very possibly hit peak Albion with last season's promotion.

I'd also passed comment, last season, on West Brom who, back then, seemed to the very definition of a "going nowhere" mid-table club. Watching MotD, even when the big clubs came to town, The Hawthorns seemed far from full giving the impression that many of their fans simply couldn't be arsed with it any more. I suspect they'll find a Championship promotion tussle, should they find their feet down there, a lot more exciting than the PL grind.

However, this season has illustrated that even those clubs that had successfully found the middle ground between the big clubs and the relegation scrap, can find themselves in the dogfight to stay up and may well fail that challenge. So, I completely understand Bloom's stated ambition, as it's a very pragmatic approach to take.

However, I'd like to think we should be aiming to "do a Burnley". That's not to say Burnley are now perpetually safe from the drop - I'm sure they're not. But finishing as "best of the rest" and snatching a Europa Cup spot has to be the dream. It may well take a few seasons for that dream to become a realistic ambition, but I think that's what we have to be shooting for.

Correct, and the only way to have the occasional Burnley-type season is to hang on grimly to Premier League status.

This season has surely proved that no club outside that big six is ever 'established'. Where might Everton be if Big Sam had turned them down? Would anyone be truly surprised if next season's bottom three are Leicester, Watford and West Ham? One bad managerial appointment, some poor recruitment and a few injuries and anyone's at risk. A few years ago Ipswich came up, got into Europe, overstretched and went back down the next season.

As for talk of eventually becoming a global brand, forget it. Clubs like us, Stains, Burnley etc are not even national brands in the sense that kids in Workington or Penzance will want our replica shirt. Blackburn and Leicester even won the Premier League title but are never going to have fan clubs in Yeovil or Carlisle.

blue'n'white · May 12, 2018

I'm happy for us to improve by little baby steps each year - to aim to finish one or two places higher each year. To aim to play attractive attacking football and to have a good Cup run in one or both of the competitions.

Goldstone1976 · May 12, 2018

El Presidente said:
I’ve spotted your obscure link to Elvis Costello’s brilliant Riot Act and claim my prize

Take your choice of a sherbet fountain or a Caramac. All sold out of Curly Wurlies, I’m afraid.

Surf's Up · May 12, 2018

Yes, Villarreal can do it in Spain so why not us

KZNSeagull · May 12, 2018

The way the club is moving is certainly the right way to do it - build year on year. Investment in the squad should now come from PL money and not from TB anymore, which can only be a good thing. What will throw a massive spanner in the works is not necessarily relegation, but the "inevitable" European Super League. Am not sure how you would even plan for that!

Husty · May 12, 2018

There are only 6 teams in this league who can say at the start of the season that they're genuinely aiming for anything other than staying up, we will never be one of them.

Guinness Boy · May 12, 2018

Thunder Bolt said:
I thought the guard of honour was for Man City winning the championship, not Toure. Our team had left the pitch when he came out for his presentation.

Not what was widely reported in the media who all said it was for Toure

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Goldstone1976 · May 12, 2018

Husty said:
There are only 6 teams in this league who can say at the start of the season that they're genuinely aiming for anything other than staying up, we will never be one of them.

That’s an interesting take on it - so, by saying that our goal will never be more than “stay up”, TB could simply be saying “we’ll never be a top 6 club”?

Yep - that’s a more positive spin than I’ve put on the messaging so far.

Stat Brother · May 12, 2018

This is all very reminiscent of an episode of Frasier.

Frasier and Niles learn of an exclusive gentleman's spa.
They finally get in and it's the greatest thing ever, until they find out about a VIP section.
They finally get into that and it's beyond their wildest dreams, until they see what they think is a secret door.
Convinced it's a VVIP section they stumble through the door and are in the back alley with the rubbish.

:lol:

Bozza · May 12, 2018

Goldstone1976 said:
I’d agree with all of this, including your assessment of what the dream should now be.

Given TB’s recent musings on the Albion’s future, my sense is that he’d share that dream, but isn’t going to provide funding above and beyond that which is assessed to be needed to keep us in the PL (allowing for the fact that good recruitment, management and a slice of luck is also required).

Last season = “Peak Albion”? Could well be the case, unless we get lucky.

Although I'll add that the impression I'd taken from someone in the Albion boardroom is that TB's has almost childlike enthusiasm for the Albion, and is always asking what has to be done to progress the club to the next level.

Husty · May 12, 2018

Goldstone1976 said:
That’s an interesting take on it - so, by saying that our goal will never be more than “stay up”, TB could simply be saying “we’ll never be a top 6 club”?

Yep - that’s a more positive spin than I’ve put on the messaging so far.

I'm not sure what other way there is to take it? As we've seen from Stoke and Southampton, both teams that have had recent forays into Europe in this league, relegation is never far away.

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[Albion] Are you OK with TB’s long term ambitions for the Albion?

Are you content for the Albion’s goal to remain “stay up” - forever?

Yep - realistic, and that’s ok

Nope - surely there’ll come a point when we should try for more

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