[Politics] Brexit

Garry Nelson's teacher · Feb 28, 2018

Herr Tubthumper said:
Barnier made a very good point in that maybe Britain should come up with a solution then. Theresa May is an utter embarrassment. I didn’t think she could undermine her own stupidity.....but she has.

To think: it wasn't that long ago that she was seen as the Conservative's prime election-winning asset.

beorhthelm · Feb 28, 2018

CheeseRolls said:
If EU migrants can be deterred by a few transport logistics, it would be simpler to just award the Eurostar and Eurotunnel contracts to Southern

EU migrants would be deterred by not having rights from freedom of movement, no rights to work here. they'd be treated the same as non-EU migrants are currently. the typical european migrant comes here because there's no obstacles to doing so, turn up and get job as barista or developer or whatever. if you want to play up to the UKIP worry on hordes coming here for the benefits, go ahead, not something im going to argue over.

CheeseRolls · Feb 28, 2018

beorhthelm said:
EU migrants would be deterred by not having rights from freedom of movement, no rights to work here. they'd be treated the same as non-EU migrants are currently. the typical european migrant comes here because there's no obstacles to doing so, turn up and get job as barista or developer or whatever. if you want to play up to the UKIP worry on hordes coming here for the benefits, go ahead, not something im going to argue over.

Worry not we can end this EU red tape nightmare and just wrap everything in our own double thick swivel cut blue tape. Employers will love the new found freedom of checking whether EU citizens came into the country pre or post Brexit and their route of entry.

JC Footy Genius · Feb 28, 2018

nicko31 said:
Lots of chest thumping from the Tories over the EU text, hope they have those rebels onboard

You mean the 14 Labour MP's who defied the Labour three-line whip last time? :wink:

nicko31 · Feb 28, 2018

JC Footy Genius said:
You mean the 14 Labour MP's who defied the Labour three-line whip last time?

Don't rule out Sinn Fein jumping on a Ryanair flight

JC Footy Genius · Feb 28, 2018

nicko31 said:
Don't rule out Sinn Fein jumping on a Ryanair flight

If anyone can make it happen .. Corbyn and McDonnell can.

ManOfSussex · Feb 28, 2018

nicko31 said:
Don't rule out Sinn Fein jumping on a Ryanair flight

Either way, amazing that the situation has evolved to the point of being such a mess that an Irish Taoiseach suggests that.

Baldseagull · Feb 28, 2018

JC Footy Genius said:
Forgive me for being a tad cynical about that particular cast iron guarantee. Firstly it doesn't necessarily apply to every new treaty or amendment. Second, the government decides if any new treaty/amendment breaches the conditions needed to trigger a referendum. Third, we know the powers that be are quite good at circumventing referendum results/constructing treaties that manage to avoid democratic public scrutiny (see Lisbon Treaty). Finally, it can be removed at any time. Leaving the EU was, is the only way to guarantee an end to the UK participating in ever closer union.

As you have already pointed out rejoining at some point in the future = no rebates, no exemptions, and even less of a say plus of course dumping the pound for the Euro entry criteria. The young will mature and grow wiser. Likely .... mmmmmm.

It applys to every new treaty or amendment that transfers any power to the EU.

https://services.parliament.uk/bills/2010-11/europeanunion.html

Key areas

Provides for a referendum throughout the United Kingdom on any proposed EU treaty or Treaty change which would transfer powers from the UK to the EU
Ensures that an Act of Parliament would have to be passed before a ‘ratchet clause’ or a passerelle (bridging clause) in the European Union Treaty could be used. In addition, if the passerelle involved a transfer of power or competence from the UK to the EU, this would also be subject to a referendum before the Government could agree to its use
Enables the UK to ratify a Protocol to allow additional European Parliament seats for the UK and 11 other Member States during the current European Parliament term, and to legislate for the extra UK seat
Provides for a clause that affirms that EU law takes effect in the UK only because Parliament wills that it should. This confirms the principle that Parliament is sovereign.

pastafarian · Feb 28, 2018

CheeseRolls said:
Worry not we can end this EU red tape nightmare and just wrap everything in our own double thick swivel cut blue tape. Employers will love the new found freedom of checking whether EU citizens came into the country pre or post Brexit and their route of entry.

Employers don’t need to concern themselves about which date someone entered or their route of entry, they only need to know paperwork issued giving permission to work is in order, as they currently do for those outside the EU.
Just how widespread are you envisioning the problem of EU citizens living and working here illegally becoming?

JC Footy Genius · Feb 28, 2018

Baldseagull said:
It applys to every new treaty or amendment that transfers any power to the EU.

https://services.parliament.uk/bills/2010-11/europeanunion.html

Key areas

Provides for a referendum throughout the United Kingdom on any proposed EU treaty or Treaty change which would transfer powers from the UK to the EU
Ensures that an Act of Parliament would have to be passed before a ‘ratchet clause’ or a passerelle (bridging clause) in the European Union Treaty could be used. In addition, if the passerelle involved a transfer of power or competence from the UK to the EU, this would also be subject to a referendum before the Government could agree to its use
Enables the UK to ratify a Protocol to allow additional European Parliament seats for the UK and 11 other Member States during the current European Parliament term, and to legislate for the extra UK seat
Provides for a clause that affirms that EU law takes effect in the UK only because Parliament wills that it should. This confirms the principle that Parliament is sovereign.

As I said the government is the arbiter of the triggering criteria and they can repeal it any moment. It also would have no effect if the ECJ ruled previous treaties allowed for further transfer of powers from the UK to the EU.

pastafarian · Feb 28, 2018

nicko31 said:
Don't rule out Sinn Fein jumping on a Ryanair flight

I really would rule it out, it’s a bit ridiculous its even been suggested.
Sinn Fein could not take up their seat, debate or cast a vote until they make an oath of allegiance or affirmation, the rules and wording of which are laid out in Acts of Parliament. The wording alone on both would make any Sinn Fein MP spontaneously combust with added mouth frothing of biblical proportions.
Trying to take part in proceedings without taking an oath or affirmation results in that parliamentary seat being declared vacant and a by-election.
I would suggest you pin your hopes of extra votes against the government elsewhere, you will be very disappointed if you continue with this little wishlist.

Ernest · Feb 28, 2018

Mogg lying about Corbyn on C4 news, just about sums up the swivel eyed loonies. On one hand a highly respected former PM in Sir John Major speaking sense to the nation and on the other hand a Tory TOFF lying his head off about the leader of the opposition as he hasn't anything to add to the debate

pastafarian · Feb 28, 2018

JC Footy Genius said:
As I said the government is the arbiter of the triggering criteria and they can repeal it any moment. It also would have no effect if the ECJ ruled previous treaties allowed for further transfer of powers from the UK to the EU.

Indeed, there are sections in the Act which would result in a referendum, but there are provisions in the Act that if treaty change is presented under various Articles of TFEU then a referendum is not required. The Act instructs procedures that Ministers would have to undertake to explain why they thought each case was valid or not to proceed to a referendum.
Its hardly the one stop catch all legislation which results in a public vote that some people think.

JC Footy Genius · Feb 28, 2018

Ernest said:
Mogg lying about Corbyn on C4 news, just about sums up the swivel eyed loonies. On one hand a highly respected former PM in Sir John Major speaking sense to the nation and on the other hand a Tory TOFF lying his head off about the leader of the opposition as he hasn't anything to add to the debate

Voter FOR Brexit, FOR a life long eurosceptic Labour Leader, a backer of BIG business views, a supporter of a TORY PM's views, no condemnation of Labour antisemitism, intimidation, terrorist sympathising, sexual assaults etc speaks ...

Thunder Bolt · Feb 28, 2018

pastafarian said:
Employers don’t need to concern themselves about which date someone entered or their route of entry, they only need to know paperwork issued giving permission to work is in order, as they currently do for those outside the EU.
Just how widespread are you envisioning the problem of EU citizens living and working here illegally becoming?

I'm more concerned about the EU women I know who have lived here for years, marrying British men, had children and will now find themselves not knowing what or who they are. I have two close friends in this situation.

JC Footy Genius · Feb 28, 2018

Thunder Bolt said:
I'm more concerned about the EU women I know who have lived here for years, marrying British men, had children and will now find themselves not knowing what or who they are. I have two close friends in this situation.

The UK government has already confirmed EU citizens who have lived here for many years are free to stay without any issues. You seem to have many close friends in very specific situations who theoretically could be affected by Brexit

Thunder Bolt · Feb 28, 2018

JC Footy Genius said:
The UK government has already confirmed EU citizens who have lived here for many years are free to stay without any issues. You seem to have many close friends in very specific situations who theoretically could be affected by Brexit

Have I? I've mentioned my husband's job, and now just mentioned a French and Dutch lady. That isn't many. Forgive me if I don't trust the UK government. They can't even get things straight.

Look at this.

[tweet]968824750511452160[/tweet]

Hampster Gull · Feb 28, 2018

Thunder Bolt said:
Have I? I've mentioned my husband's job, and now just mentioned a French and Dutch lady. That isn't many.

It is for JC FG

Thunder Bolt · Feb 28, 2018

Thunder Bolt said:
[tweet]968824750511452160[/tweet]

Sorry to quote myself but this situation arises from that mess.

[tweet]968849141165109248[/tweet]

Baldseagull · Feb 28, 2018

JC Footy Genius said:
As I said the government is the arbiter of the triggering criteria and they can repeal it any moment. It also would have no effect if the ECJ ruled previous treaties allowed for further transfer of powers from the UK to the EU.

The law sets out the criteria, plain and simple, any transfer of powers. Anyone could ask the courts to rule if they felt a Government had not acted as the law directs it to, ask Gina Miller. And what treaty have we signed up to that has any future power transfer in it? Your paranoid mate.

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