[Politics] Brexit

JC Footy Genius · Jul 5, 2017

vegster said:
Ok then, because It's not immediate it's not down to the chaos of Brexit, What else can we blame it on that is acceptable to you ? Interesting to see that the pledge " To Fund Our NHS instead " never even made it past 3 months before that one hit the buffers.

As 'It' referred to predictions of big rises in unemployment and recession we can't blame 'it' on anything because 'it' isn't happening. The economy will continue to grow this year and is predicted to grow next year. When will we see a Brexit induced recession and large scale rises in unemployment in your view 2018,19, 20?

If people had kept away from the doomsday nonsense and said exiting the EU will cause a slowing in growth because of uncertainty we could all have had a sensible debate.

I am certain that some of the tens of Billions that would have been sent to Brussels for our future membership fee will be spent on the NHS.

studio150 · Jul 5, 2017

JC Footy Genius said:
As 'It' referred to predictions of big rises in unemployment and recession we can't blame 'it' on anything because 'it' isn't happening. The economy will continue to grow this year and is predicted to grow next year. When will we see a Brexit induced recession and large scale rises in unemployment in your view 2018,19, 20?

If people had kept away from the doomsday nonsense and said exiting the EU will cause a slowing in growth because of uncertainty we could all have had a sensible debate.

I am certain that some of the tens of Billions that would have been sent to Brussels for our future membership fee will be spent on the NHS.

Or spent replacing the EU money that will he lost. You will recall the likes of Cornwall asking to receive the same from the Government ehen their EU money stops.
Dont forget that projects like the Thames cable car crossing were part funded by the EU regeneration programme so future projects will gave to rely on central funds or they won't be built.

So are we going to borrow even more post Brexit to help the economy while putting even more debt onto future generations or just let the economy shrink and shrink.

Two Professors · Jul 5, 2017

daveinprague said:
Youre right. A lot of Brexit voters must have been incredibly thick, and stupid to fall for that.

Well a lot of incredibly thick,and stupid moaners still keep harping on about it.I don't think anybody who got beyond key stage 2 English Language could claim it says '350 million a week to the NHS'.

Two Professors · Jul 5, 2017

Lincoln Imp said:
Even you must be able to see through that argument. It's thin enough. It is completely clear what the message was intended to convey. Even Vote Leave's director says it was a lie, a lie he admits won them the referendum.

daveinprague · Jul 5, 2017

Two Professors said:
Well a lot of incredibly thick,and stupid moaners still keep harping on about it.I don't think anybody who got beyond key stage 2 English Language could claim it says '350 million a week to the NHS'.

Yet thousands voted to leave on the strength of it. You can try and dismiss this all day sunshine, but when the campaign director admits that it very much indeed helped them to win the leave vote, people like you arguing some 'alternative fact' just look a bit daft.

studio150 · Jul 5, 2017

Two Professors said:
Well a lot of incredibly thick,and stupid moaners still keep harping on about it.I don't think anybody who got beyond key stage 2 English Language could claim it says '350 million a week to the NHS'.

It did of course say let's find our NHS instead. So is our NHS now fully funded or have plans been announced to fully fund the NHS anytime soon.

But no doubt leave voters who were keen on immigration are pleased that the number if EU doctors and nurses coming to the UK since the referendum has plummeted. So higher costs due to agency workers being required.

ManOfSussex · Jul 5, 2017

I really don't know how anyone could come to the conclusion that £350m was going directly to The NHS a week.

Two Professors · Jul 5, 2017

studio150 said:
It did of course say let's find our NHS instead. So is our NHS now fully funded or have plans been announced to fully fund the NHS anytime soon.

But no doubt leave voters who were keen on immigration are pleased that the number if EU doctors and nurses coming to the UK since the referendum has plummeted. So higher costs due to agency workers being required.

You really should get out more.How can we spend any money saved from our EU contributions?WE HAVE NOT LEFT YET!You witter on about EU funds being spent here,but where does that money come from?Us,the French,and the Germans fund it.Even the dimwit running the budget has admitted he will be at least 10 billion short in 2019,after we stop paying in.

Two Professors · Jul 5, 2017

ManOfSussex said:
I really don't know how anyone could come to the conclusion that £350m was going directly to The NHS a week.

View attachment 86887

Who would believe anything Boris said?

ManOfSussex · Jul 5, 2017

Two Professors said:
Who would believe anything Boris said?

One of the chief campaigners for Vote Leave? I agree.

studio150 · Jul 5, 2017

Two Professors said:
You really should get out more.How can we spend any money saved from our EU contributions?WE HAVE NOT LEFT YET!You witter on about EU funds being spent here,but where does that money come from?Us,the French,and the Germans fund it.Even the dimwit running the budget has admitted he will be at least 10 billion short in 2019,after we stop paying in.

Future planning as we must know how much better off we will be. Therefore it would be easy to announce future NHS improvement plans to start 2019. But the government cant it seems even agree whether the wages cap should end and uf it does how it will be funded.

studio150 · Jul 5, 2017

Two Professors said:
Who would believe anything Boris said?

About 18m leave voters for some strange reason

Berty23 · Jul 5, 2017

Two Professors said:
Well a lot of incredibly thick,and stupid moaners still keep harping on about it.I don't think anybody who got beyond key stage 2 English Language could claim it says '350 million a week to the NHS'.

ManOfSussex said:
I really don't know how anyone could come to the conclusion that £350m was going directly to The NHS a week.

View attachment 86887

Really looking forward to the response to this. This will be some special pleading. "But they lied too" but people don't understand the difference between predictions and outright lies. Even my dad has admitted he voted based on lies. First time he has ever admitted he was wrong. I don't expect people to admit this on an Internet forum though because this has not happen in 20 years on the internet so won't start now.

"I didn't vote for the 350 million anyway I voted about the laws"

"What laws?"

"The ones I don't like"

"Name one"

"It is just not right for us to be dictated to"

"Name one"

"That isn't the point"

"It kind of is"

"Plus our services can't cope with all the immigrants, the NHS is crumbling"

"Immigrants make up a large proportion of NHS staff"

"That's not the point"

"It is though isn't it"

And on it goes. What a time to be alive.

Two Professors · Jul 5, 2017

ManOfSussex said:
One of the chief campaigners for Vote Leave? I agree.

I still think he drew the short straw,and got stuck with Leave.None of the top Tories ever believed Leave would win,so they lumbered Boris.

Two Professors · Jul 5, 2017

studio150 said:
Future planning as we must know how much better off we will be. Therefore it would be easy to announce future NHS improvement plans to start 2019. But the government cant it seems even agree whether the wages cap should end and uf it does how it will be funded.

But do you agree that the funding came from our EU contributions in the first place?

Two Professors · Jul 5, 2017

Berty23 said:
Really looking forward to the response to this. This will be some special pleading. "But they lied too" but people don't understand the difference between predictions and outright lies. Even my dad has admitted he voted based on lies. First time he has ever admitted he was wrong. I don't expect people to admit this on an Internet forum though because this has not happen in 20 years on the internet so won't start now.

"I didn't vote for the 350 million anyway I voted about the laws"

"What laws?"

"The ones I don't like"

"Name one"

"It is just not right for us to be dictated to"

"Name one"

"That isn't the point"

"It kind of is"

"Plus our services can't cope with all the immigrants, the NHS is crumbling"

"Immigrants make up a large proportion of NHS staff"

"That's not the point"

"It is though isn't it"

And on it goes. What a time to be alive.

Oh dear.Are you Warwick born,or just live there?

GT49er · Jul 5, 2017

Lincoln Imp said:
Even you must be able to see through that argument. It's thin enough. It is completely clear what the message was intended to convey. Even Vote Leave's director says it was a lie, a lie he admits won them the referendum.

Yes, but you have to accept that he's speaking as a turncoat who has gone over to the other side, so anything he says is no more credible now than it was then.

BigGully · Jul 5, 2017

studio150 said:
It did of course say let's find our NHS instead. So is our NHS now fully funded or have plans been announced to fully fund the NHS anytime soon.

But no doubt leave voters who were keen on immigration are pleased that the number if EU doctors and nurses coming to the UK since the referendum has plummeted. So higher costs due to agency workers being required.

You cannot create an environment where whole sectors of industry become dependant on overseas labour, it seems quite reasonable to have where it is possible an environment that encourages British workers to fill posts, maybe not exclusively but predominately.

Why do you find that such a odd aspiration, it is neither xenophobic nor does it ignore the good work many immigrants have contributed and still do to the NHS and other sectors.

Its just a tweek of policy to try to prioritise our own workforce ahead of those from elsewhere, especially when the discussion is usually hijacked by those that use the current immigrant dependant environment to then discredit those of us that feel the current immigration levels are too high and require tighter controls.

Pre mass immigration I used hotels, the NHS, ate punnet of strawberries and had my plumbing needs services quite adequantly without the need for for a annual net migration of 300 000+ peoples from outside of the UK, I am sure there were some from outside the UK that did a great job then too and more power to them but mainly we had a workforce that could fulfill most of those roles and if not then some controlled foreign recruitment policy could then ensure an appropriate and motivated workforce to fill specific necessary sectors and professions.

It seems wholly illogical that to somehow fill limited roles that any economy can possibly deliver there needs absolute unlimited immigration, especially when there is a disparity between EU's economies, wages, currencies and culture.

ManOfSussex · Jul 5, 2017

Two Professors said:
I still think he drew the short straw,and got stuck with Leave.None of the top Tories ever believed Leave would win,so they lumbered Boris.

He left it very,very late before coming out in favour of 'leave' and it is said he only did so on the advice of Sir Lynton Crosby, who had advised Cameron to hold the referendum later than 2016. All water under the bridge now though.

studio150 · Jul 5, 2017

BigGully said:
You cannot create an environment where whole sectors of industry become dependant on overseas labour, it seems quite reasonable to have where it is possible an environment that encourages British workers to fill posts, maybe not exclusively but predominately.

Why do you find that such a odd aspiration, it is neither xenophobic nor does it ignore the good work many immigrants have contributed and still do to the NHS and other sectors.

Its just a tweek of policy to try to prioritise our own workforce ahead of those from elsewhere, especially when the discussion is usually hijacked by those that use the current immigrant dependant environment to then discredit those of us that feel the current immigration levels are too high and require tighter controls.

Pre mass immigration I used hotels, the NHS, ate punnet of strawberries and had my plumbing needs services quite adequantly without the need for for a annual net migration of 300 000+ peoples from outside of the UK, I am sure there were some from outside the UK that did a great job then too and more power to them but mainly we had a workforce that could fulfill most of those roles and if not then some controlled foreign recruitment policy could then ensure an appropriate and motivated workforce to fill specific necessary sectors and professions.

It seems wholly illogical that to somehow fill limited roles that any economy can possibly deliver there needs absolute unlimited immigration, especially when there is a disparity between EU's economies, wages, currencies and culture.

Given the pay cap the NHS seems to be fairly dependant on European workers to keep the numbers up. With these numbers falling the base cost rises, given that agency workers cost more. If the pay freeze and cap hadn't been introduced and/or the NHS was fully funded then we would need to rely less on European workers.

I don't see how you can effectively say British jobs for British workers if there are insufficient British workers willing to come forward to undertake the work, or if they do undertake the jobs they leave fairly quickly due to the poor wages.

Talking of strawberries did I not read that the people who supply Wimbledon with their strawberries are having serious problems this year, as most of their European pickers have left the UK, and British workers are reluctant to step in.

All of which indicates that post Brexit when the Tories have got net immigration down there wil be a lot less productivity in the UK due to the unfilled jobs

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