Anyone out there a Vegetarian or Vegan ?

knocky1 · Jan 17, 2017

nigeyb said:
I've been veggie for 20 years and for the last 6 months have been vegan. Why? My belief that it is a healthier diet and, more importantly, I am opposed to factory farming methods.

All the information is out there for anyone who is interested. A couple of things to check out if you are interested - the documentary "Forks over Knives" (which is on Netflix, but also fairly easy to track down online) and, for those that prefer a book, I'd say one of the best is "How Not To Die" by Dr Michael Greger

I'd add that just as there are healthy meat eaters (ie those that limit their intake and also eat a lot of fruit and vegetables) there are also a lot of unhealthy vegans.

The trick to a healthy lifestyle is quite simple: lots of fresh fruit and vegetables (esp cruciferous), lots of whole grains, lots of beans and legumes, nuts and seeds, and root vegetables - all of which are delicious with the right spices, herbs etc. The stuff that is unhealthy and should be avoided, or at the very least eaten in moderation, includes processed foods, oils, sugar and cholesterol. And regular exercise of course.

I'm not so hardcore that I avoid leather shoes or only drink vegan wine and beer - but perhaps one day though I doubt it.

Forgotten the word cruciferous despite growing most of them over the last 15 years on the allotment. Had to ask the wife who shouted at me for not knowing. They contain all the brassicas and a few more. Called cruciferous because the flowers have 4 petals in the shape of a cross. Thanks and thanks to NSC!

I do think vegetable oils are a necessary addition to a diet and are beneficial to health. Good and bad cholesterol is the new ratio looked at in medical tests.

crabface · Jan 17, 2017

Been reading more and more about vegeterian and veganism recently as its seems to be "on trend". Personally i couldnt see myself doing down either route, but can understand why people do it.

What get's on my goat though is the small minority of Vegans and Veggie's that insist on ramming it down your throat. Take the Cheese festival in Borough Market a few weeks ago, why did a group of Vegan's need to stand around an already crowded area insisting people dont eat cheese?

Also have few veggies on my facebook and have seen a few of them complaining about a German Sausage stall that they have walked past and how it shouldnt be there as the smell makes them feel ill? What a load of nonsense.

brakespear · Jan 17, 2017

Uncle Spielberg said:
What i like the most about her is her resolute belief in her feelings. She has taught me a lot. I do not agree with some things but her belief in thinking the killing and farrning of animals is wrong has opened my eyes

I have to say I've thought about the same thing - especially since we've had pets in the house, because I guess I wouldn't want anything to happen to our pets but then shouldn't the same apply to other animals? I think I could be a vegetarian again (I was for a year before) but not a vegan though - because I'd miss cheese too much. So we'd have to keep dairy farms whatever

soistes · Jan 17, 2017

crabface said:
What get's on my goat though is the small minority of Vegans and Veggie's that insist on ramming it down your throat.

I've never come across this personally, although as a veggie, I probably wouldn't mind someone feeding me (or my goat) vegetarian food...

This argument sounds very redolent to me of all those discussions of homophobia (including some on NSC) in which someone invariably posts something like "I'm not homophobic, and I don't care what they get up to in private, but I don't see why they always have to ram it down your throat..."

The point being, of course, that expressing an opinion, and indeed campaigning for it vociferously, while not usually my thing (well not as far as vegetarianism is concerned) is not really the same as "ramming it down anyone's throat". Any more than the p****d up Albion fans chanting at Brighton station are "ramming it down the throats" of the regular railway passengers... even if they are being a bit annoying.

symyjym · Jan 17, 2017

nigeyb said:
I use Rice Dream - not saying it's brilliant but works well in Porridge

When I drink tea and coffee I just have it black, though recently started experimenting with a slice of lemon in tea which is actually quite nice, but makes it a different drink

I'm a massive milk guzzler and it tends to replace the urge to eat during the day. I even go to bed with a bottle of milk. I should try some alternatives though.

crabface · Jan 17, 2017

soistes said:
I've never come across this personally, although as a veggie, I probably wouldn't mind someone feeding me (or my goat) vegetarian food...

Picketing certain food event's is not going to win any fans? If someone turns up to sample some cheese, im sure a large group of Vegan's shouting at them is not going to sway them to not buy it.

nigeyb · Jan 17, 2017

knocky1 said:
I do think vegetable oils are a necessary addition to a diet and are beneficial to health. Good and bad cholesterol is the new ratio looked at in medical tests.

Dr Michael Greger who I mentioned earlier agrees with that, but his position is a bit more nuanced, and he recommends getting the oils from their source, rather than in processed form, so eating olives (not olive oil), hemp seeds (not hemp oil) etc etc. That way you also get a plethora of micronutrients and get the HDL (the "good cholesterol") whilst minimising LDL (the "bad cholesterol). Some seeds must be ground to access the nutrients.

soistes · Jan 17, 2017

crabface said:
Picketing certain food event's is not going to win any fans? If someone turns up to sample some cheese, im sure a large group of Vegan's shouting at them is not going to sway them to not buy it.

It wouldn't sway me, no. I can't speak for others though, and as long as they weren't being violent, I don't see the problem with the vegans turning up to express their views and demonstrate against something they disagree with, any more than I had problems with the pro-Palestinian demonstrators demonstrating against the Sodastream shop (Israeli company) that used to be on Western road, or the people who demonstrated outside Starbucks branches because of their non-payment of taxes etc.

nigeyb · Jan 17, 2017

One other thing to mention is that veganism has only been possible in the recent past as vegans cannot get sufficient Vitamin B12 from their diet so often have to take a supplement to ensure optimum health and nutrition...

A diet that includes meat, fish and dairy products usually provides enough vitamin B12, but people who don't regularly eat these foods – such as those following a vegan diet or who have a generally very poor diet – can become deficient.

Stores of vitamin B12 in the body can last around two to four years without being replenished, so it can take a long time for any problems to develop after a dietary change.

Sources of vitamin B12 for vegans include:

breakfast cereals fortified with B12
unsweetened soya drinks fortified with vitamin B12
yeast extract such as Marmite, which is fortified with vitamin B12

Horton's halftime iceberg · Jan 17, 2017

Gwylan said:
Going leather-free is much harder: I wanted to replace a watch strap the other day and couldn't find a single shop that sold them - had to buy online. It's also not possible to resole non-leather shoes so I have to buy new ones every time a heel gets worn, something I find rather wasteful.

Eating abroad is much easier now - even in France. There's a vegetarian magazine in France now, something I find incredible. There are still places where it's not so good. I wonder what it's like in Russia now, 30 years ago I lived on bread, cabbage and vodka for a week - bet that's changed.

Yes when I was over at Christmas (typical rural France) even the local SuperU had a range of instant veggie foods in the cool cabinet.

knocky1 · Jan 17, 2017

nigeyb said:
Dr Michael Greger who I mentioned earlier agrees with that, but his position is a bit more nuanced, and he recommends getting the oils from their source, rather than in processed form, so eating olives (not olive oil), hemp seeds (not hemp oil) etc etc. That way you also get a plethora of micronutrients and get the HDL (the "good cholesterol") whilst minimising LDL (the "bad cholesterol). Some seeds must be ground to access the nutrients.

I'd agree with that fully and try to follow that.
My breakfast is ground Brazils, walnuts, cashews, pumpkin seeds, chia seeds, water, little oats, big dollop coconut fat, raisins, a dried prune and banana. Takes a long time to get through. Use olive oil as a dressing. Cook with olive oil or coconut fat and drink cumin and avocado oil, as avocados are unreliable in quality. As a pesky I also have oily fish. Need fats as have constant battle against weight loss due to exercise and fats give me most energy. Have 3:1 ratio good to bad cholesterol.

pearl · Jan 17, 2017

knocky1 said:
I'd agree with that fully and try to follow that.
My breakfast is ground Brazils, walnuts, cashews, pumpkin seeds, chia seeds, water, little oats, big dollop coconut fat, raisins, a dried prune and banana. Takes a long time to get through. Use olive oil as a dressing. Cook with olive oil or coconut fat and drink cumin and avocado oil, as avocados are unreliable in quality. As a pesky I also have oily fish. Need fats as have constant battle against weight loss due to exercise and fats give me most energy. Have 3:1 ratio good to bad cholesterol.

I thought it was bad to cook with olive oil? I use rapeseed oil

nigeyb · Jan 17, 2017

knocky1 said:
I'd agree with that fully and try to follow that.
My breakfast is ground Brazils, walnuts, cashews, pumpkin seeds, chia seeds, water, little oats, big dollop coconut fat, raisins, a dried prune and banana. Takes a long time to get through. Use olive oil as a dressing. Cook with olive oil or coconut fat and drink cumin and avocado oil, as avocados are unreliable in quality. As a pesky I also have oily fish. Need fats as have constant battle against weight loss due to exercise and fats give me most energy. Have 3:1 ratio good to bad cholesterol.

That's impressive knocky1

I'm also amazed, and impressed, that your exercise levels are such that you have to eat more to stop losing weight. There can't be many people who are in that position. How much are you exercising?

I'm pretty active but in my mid 50s now, and for the last 10 years or so find that I have keep a close eye on what I eat to avoid the kilos creeping on. That said, the vegan diet has made it a bit easier to stay consistently at what I consider my ideal weight/BMI for optimum health

knocky1 · Jan 17, 2017

pearl said:
I thought it was bad to cook with olive oil? I use rapeseed oil

Yes it was, and maybe is but maybe not. Opinions are changing constantly. I use it because I like the taste but usually use coconut fat. Fry very little or rather she fries very little. Have never been a rapeseed fan and have not looked into the relative pros and cons.

nigeyb · Jan 17, 2017

pearl said:
I thought it was bad to cook with olive oil? I use rapeseed oil

I've read that too. Olive Oil burns at low temperatures compared to other types, and when overheated, can produce lipid peroxides which some scientists claim increases risk of cancer and heart disease.

Who knows?

Many believe that the role of cholesterol in heart disease is massively overstated and it is unfairly demonised. Personally I still adhere to a low fat approach and try to avoid cooking with oil at all. Sometimes I use small amounts, primarily for roasting vegetables. A mister is a god send for just using small quantities. I also sometimes use Coconut Oil, but only in small quantities. Coconut Oil has other related benefits.

knocky1 · Jan 17, 2017

nigeyb said:
That's impressive knocky1

I'm also amazed, and impressed, that your exercise levels are such that you have to eat more to stop losing weight. There can't be many people who are in that position. How much are you exercising?

I'm pretty active but in my mid 50s now, and for the last 10 years or so find that I have keep a close eye on what I eat to avoid the kilos creeping on. That said, the vegan diet has made it a bit easier to stay consistently at what I consider my ideal weight/BMI for optimum health

I'm a metabolic freak! Just over mid 50s run 700 miles a year, walk 20 miles a week, have walking holidays, have two allotments and a garden, bit of cycling and burn lots of energy avoiding jobs around the house. I first used coconut fat 10 years ago for triathlon fuel. It stopped me needing to eat every 30 minutes. It is also meant to encourage the body yo burn bad fats but I'm not sure if that has lasted the test of time.

Tom Hark Preston Park · Jan 17, 2017

Uncle Spielberg said:
What i like the most about her is her resolute belief in her feelings. She has taught me a lot. I do not agree with some things but her belief in thinking the killing and farrning of animals is wrong has opened my eyes

Vegans tend to be single issue zealots in my experience Uncle. While wishing you all good things, can't help but feel that this will not end well. Nevermind, when the inevitable happens, you can always GORGE on bacon sarnies to ease the pain.

Dick Head · Jan 17, 2017

crabface said:
Been reading more and more about vegeterian and veganism recently as its seems to be "on trend". Personally i couldnt see myself doing down either route, but can understand why people do it.

What get's on my goat though is the small minority of Vegans and Veggie's that insist on ramming it down your throat. Take the Cheese festival in Borough Market a few weeks ago, why did a group of Vegan's need to stand around an already crowded area insisting people dont eat cheese?

Also have few veggies on my facebook and have seen a few of them complaining about a German Sausage stall that they have walked past and how it shouldnt be there as the smell makes them feel ill? What a load of nonsense.

They get your goat because they are making you think about something you don't want to think about. You say you can understand why people do it and then call it a load of nonsense. This is called cognitive dissonance.

Dick Head · Jan 17, 2017

Tom Hark said:
Vegans tend to be single issue zealots in my experience Uncle. While wishing you all good things, can't help but feel that this will not end well. Nevermind, when the inevitable happens, you can always GORGE on bacon sarnies to ease the pain.

The zealots give the rest of us a bad name because they are the ones that you notice. At least [MENTION=24107]crabface[/MENTION] realises that they are a small minority.

crabface · Jan 17, 2017

Dick Head said:
They get your goat because they are making you think about something you don't want to think about. You say you can understand why people do it and then call it a load of nonsense. This is called cognitive dissonance.

Im more than happy to think about it, but have still chosen to eat meat even after reading about it.

What i was calling nonsense is people saying that they feel ill because they have smelt some meat, surley that is a little bit of an over reaction?

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