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[Politics] Gender pay gap



Acker79

Acker79

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 15, 2008
31,855
Brighton
Giraffe said:
Well you are entitled to your view and I respect your opinion.

Our experiences are different. Maybe over the next ten years we will see it change. I’m certainly open to having my view changed.

I’d like to see more women commit to their career in the same way as men that progress to higher positions. This will make a massive change for the good of women and men and bring much more balance to home and work life.

Let’s agree that we would both like to see that even if we start from different positions?
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How does that work? HT believes there are barriers in place to women achieving successful top line careers (namely, sexism). You're arguing there's no sexism here, it's just women aren't as good, don't have the ambition.

And you want him to agree that what you both want is women to show some ambition and commit to their careers the way men do so we can have some balance at home?
 




Sorrel

Sorrel

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
2,743
Back in East Sussex
The logical conclusion of the figures would be legislation that compels employers to try and even out gender pay imbalances. It's already illegal to pay people different wages for the same job and to discriminate when employing people (though all job offers have to by their nature discriminate against those who don't get the job). So where else can legislation go?

I think it's fair for people to be worried about others being promoted or paid more for their gender rather than their ability. Those who highlight the imbalance would probably suggest that's exactly what's happened for years already.

Personally I don't like the idea of quotas to ensure an organisation has fair representation, but I would accept that in some circumstances they are necessary. However, trying to achieve absolute equality of outcome does seem rather unlikely to be beneficial in quite a lot of circumstances. It would be better to focus on equality of opportunity and removing barriers people feel are in their way.
 


Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,502
The Fatherland
Giraffe said:
Well you are entitled to your view and I respect your opinion.

Our experiences are different. Maybe over the next ten years we will see it change. I’m certainly open to having my view changed.

I’d like to see more women commit to their career in the same way as men that progress to higher positions. This will make a massive change for the good of women and men and bring much more balance to home and work life.

Let’s agree that we would both like to see that even if we start from different positions?
Click to expand...

You seem to be going off track here. You have stated you feel women are not as good at business as men. I disagree. This is my point. You now seem to be suggesting to me it’s merely a case of commitment. If they’re crap no level of commitment will improve the situation will it?
 


B

Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
11,805
Cumbria
Sorrel said:
The logical conclusion of the figures would be legislation that compels employers to try and even out gender pay imbalances. It's already illegal to pay people different wages for the same job and to discriminate when employing people (though all job offers have to by their nature discriminate against those who don't get the job). So where else can legislation go?

I think it's fair for people to be worried about others being promoted or paid more for their gender rather than their ability. Those who highlight the imbalance would probably suggest that's exactly what's happened for years already.

Personally I don't like the idea of quotas to ensure an organisation has fair representation, but I would accept that in some circumstances they are necessary. However, trying to achieve absolute equality of outcome does seem rather unlikely to be beneficial in quite a lot of circumstances. It would be better to focus on equality of opportunity and removing barriers people feel are in their way.
Click to expand...

Although the data is not perfect, one unexpected thing that may come out of this is if employers start being more flexible when men ask for part-time work or reduced hours. I'm in a local authority (too small to report unfortunately, but we have asked them to publish internally the same data), and until recently, flexible working (eg: working four days in five so you can leave early to pick up the kids, working only four days to save on childcare costs, and so on) was only ever granted to women (it is gradually changing). Hence, more women doing part-time work - and hence an unintentional gender pay gap.

The more employers like mine become willing to extend that flexibility to all, the more men will go part-time - thus reducing the pay gap in our authority.

How we go about getting women in heads of service and directors positions (we only have one out of seven at the moment, we did have 3/7 for a while) is a more difficult and intractable problem, and one I don't have an answer to.
 


Questions

Questions

Habitual User
Oct 18, 2006
24,874
Worthing
Very few real sexists on here. Most are just taking the piss. It’s NSC..... it’s what we do.
 




Giraffe

Giraffe

VERY part time moderator
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patron
Aug 8, 2005
26,545
Questions said:
Very few real sexists on here. Most are just taking the piss. It’s NSC..... it’s what we do.
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Never fails to amaze me how cross people get on an Internet forum. I worry about some of them.
 


StonehamPark

StonehamPark

#Brighton-Nil
Oct 30, 2010
9,775
BC, Canada
Giraffe said:
Never fails to amaze me how cross people get on an Internet forum. I worry about some of them.
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The sad reality is that women in business are generally not as good as men. That’s a fact.
They are great at many things but if you took ten average men and ten average women the men would be better 8/10.
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They have more drive, are less volatile and work harder.
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They also cry a lot less and accept constructive criticism much better.
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Men here fore deserve to be paid more in business.
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No wonder why eh. :lol:
 


Beach Hut

Beach Hut

Brighton Bhuna Boy
Jul 5, 2003
71,963
Living In a Box
Someone has really stuck their neck out on this topic.
 




Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
49,953
Faversham
Giraffe said:
When? Show me these many times? Off the top of my head the only bread I can think of is wanting Gully’s Girls back and not being a fan of woman’s football. Any others?




Not stupid actually, relatively intelligent. But moreover just being honest and not afraid of left wing feminist despite the bile that they generally post.

I am not sexist. I could prove that hundreds of times over but I doubt anyone would listen. However I still maintain my general point is valid. Women are generally not as good at business as men. Lack of ambition, lack of logic, lack of control of emotion but mostly a general desire to have children and focus on them more than their job. And there is nothing wrong with that by the way.

Many will read this and agree but will be too scared to post because of the abuse I have received.

The gender pay gap problem is real as these figures are showing but bleating that’s it’s because of sexism is just frankly nonsense and actually damaging to women’s cause. What women need to do (and this isn’t all women I know) is up their game. A lot of women in business don’t have the ambition to go further, so won’t work as hard as a man in a similar position. Yes career breaks to have children are relevant but I know several women in high positions within companies who have had children and still kept going. They organised their life properly, get back to work and push on. If women choose to stay off with the children then that’s their choice and I respect that but you can’t have your cake and eat it. If you want to spend time with your children you will sacrifice opportunities at work which men may take. I did exactly that to spend more time with my children. My pay suffered as a result. Plenty of women progress despite this and a lot of these I talk to are fed up with all the moaning about raising children restricting your career. It’s just not the case. That is a choice. Spend time with your children or focus on your career. It is a choice a lot of men have made and they accept the sacrifice to their career as well.
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Sometimes less is more.
 










edna krabappel

edna krabappel

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 7, 2003
47,221
Giraffe said:
Never fails to amaze me how cross people get on an Internet forum. I worry about some of them.
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It's probably because they're women.

I mean, you know better than any of us how over-emotional, irrational and lacking in any kind of logical thought process they are. The poor, fragile, silly little things.
 






pb21

pb21

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2010
6,293
Tyrone Biggums said:
Because they work in better and higher paid jobs that require higher skill sets.
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Obviously they earn more because they work in higher paid jobs!

Why do gay men on average work in higher paid jobs than straight men?
 










The Clamp

The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 11, 2016
24,501
West is BEST
Giraffe said:
When? Show me these many times? Off the top of my head the only bread I can think of is wanting Gully’s Girls back and not being a fan of woman’s football. Any others?




Not stupid actually, relatively intelligent. But moreover just being honest and not afraid of left wing feminist despite the bile that they generally post.

I am not sexist. I could prove that hundreds of times over but I doubt anyone would listen. However I still maintain my general point is valid. Women are generally not as good at business as men. Lack of ambition, lack of logic, lack of control of emotion but mostly a general desire to have children and focus on them more than their job. And there is nothing wrong with that by the way.

Many will read this and agree but will be too scared to post because of the abuse I have received.

The gender pay gap problem is real as these figures are showing but bleating that’s it’s because of sexism is just frankly nonsense and actually damaging to women’s cause. What women need to do (and this isn’t all women I know) is up their game. A lot of women in business don’t have the ambition to go further, so won’t work as hard as a man in a similar position. Yes career breaks to have children are relevant but I know several women in high positions within companies who have had children and still kept going. They organised their life properly, get back to work and push on. If women choose to stay off with the children then that’s their choice and I respect that but you can’t have your cake and eat it. If you want to spend time with your children you will sacrifice opportunities at work which men may take. I did exactly that to spend more time with my children. My pay suffered as a result. Plenty of women progress despite this and a lot of these I talk to are fed up with all the moaning about raising children restricting your career. It’s just not the case. That is a choice. Spend time with your children or focus on your career. It is a choice a lot of men have made and they accept the sacrifice to their career as well.
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This is just utter nonsense. I get the distinct impression you don't like women and are probably rather afraid of them. It's clearly too late for you but for heaven's sakes, please don't instill this ludicrous claptrap into any kids you may have. It will not serve them or their future workmates well at all.
 


The Clamp

The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 11, 2016
24,501
West is BEST
Sirnormangall said:
Apparently some of the unions have large gender pay gaps - surprising?
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Well, if they've have pay gaps based solely on gender, a practise that has been unlawful for over 25 years in the U.K, they can take their employers to court and they will win. As would happen in any workplace.
 


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