pb21
Well-known member
- Apr 23, 2010
- 6,315
In addition he said he would campaign to leave unless he secured massive reforms in the EU!
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[Politics] Brexit
- Thread starter KingstonSeagull
- Start date
In addition he said he would campaign to leave unless he secured massive reforms in the EU!
pastafarian
Well-known member
You are being deliberately obtuse. You have presented lies.
You have had an opportunity to apologise and you have done the dishonorable thing.
I pity you, because I know inside you will be cursing yourself.
Sent from my iPhone in a non-Calde world :-(
pastafarian
Well-known member
Caroline Lucas said in the commons only just over a week ago when she was introducing the Ten Minute Rule Bill - EU Transparency and Accountability how the EU was undemocratic and unaccountable,must have slipped your mind to mention her coming out with that
pastafarian
Well-known member
So the 2030 £4300 estimate is true then? make your mind up
I don't need to. You need to accept that other posters will have seen you lie. That is an unacceptable thing to do.
Sent from my iPhone in a non-Calde world :-(
But on balance she thinks it's preferable to stay in...this must have slipped your mind.
Good point that Out, or Vote Leave, or Generation Leave or whatever it is, can hardly agree what to order for lunch let alone decided on which basis our economic relationship with the EU will be based. Personally I favour Gove's Albania model. In terms of the £4300 figure if the economy contracts by 6%, which is in the mid-range of economic forecasts, if you divide that by the number of households then by 2030 it will cost the average household £4300. This obviously will vary but it's a way of demonstrating what 6% means in practice for your average family.
So it's true that it provides a rough guide to Brexit self-flagellation.
Lincoln Imp
Well-known member
- Feb 2, 2009
- 5,964
I think I started this little tributary by quoting the Brexit-favouring senior MP upset by the Leave campaign's distortion of how Brexit could help the NHS. Her point was that, by continually quoting the figure of £350m in the context of saving the NHS, the Leave campaign was clearly implying that the country would immediately be £350m better off if it left and was obviously conflating this specific saving with the NHS's need for more money. Both are untrue.
One of the Leave campaign's favourite sleights of hand is to mix and mash gross and net figures. The £350m figure is an example and even the lesser figure - you mention £150m - does not include the returns to the wider economy. Obviously the level of those returns is part of the debate but few people, even on here, deny that they exist.
It's neither here nor there, but I happen to disapprove of George Osborne's technique of taking gloomiest-possible figures and then reducing them to soundbites - "18%!" "£4300!" - so that they resonate with the man on the street. It doesn't help his case. I just wish that more Leave campaigners would criticise the wild excesses of their leaders in the same way. It is good that the Chairman of the Health Select Committee has done so but I doubt too many of the NSC evangelists will be joining her.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,312
no it doesnt, it portrays a ficition. if applied to today's GDP/household the number would be ~£75k when in fact around a third that. so the figure is inflated by 300% to begin with before even looking at the false assumptions and biased forecasts that go into getting there. in practice, 6% GDP over 15 years means very little to households individually. not as bad as yesterdays analysis though that seems to want us to believe trade and the economy goes into meltdown on 24th June, when the status quo will persist for at least two years. even the Remain camp are questioning Osborne's hype.
Bladders
Twats everywhere
Lincoln Imp
Well-known member
- Feb 2, 2009
- 5,964
And do you question Boris's teabags, bananas and Hitler hypes, Mordaunt's Thurkish veto-fibs and the claim that it's possible to spend an imaginary £350m a week on a heap of different things simultaneously?
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,312
i dont pay much attention to those lightweight claims (though the Hitler thing was in context not incorrect), and you'll notice i don't keep referring to those issues. unlike the remainers that trot out the claims of Osborne hourly.
Bladders
Twats everywhere
Today its Holidays .
Holidays will be more expensive if we leave the EU.
I wonder what tomorrow will bring? I'm going with Pick & Mix will be more expensive if we leave the EU. That will be tomorrows headline.
Holidays will be more expensive if we leave the EU.
I wonder what tomorrow will bring? I'm going with Pick & Mix will be more expensive if we leave the EU. That will be tomorrows headline.
Seems to demonstrate that Brexit is a rolling cavalcade of inconvenience and pointless expense.
Bladders
Twats everywhere
Lincoln Imp
Well-known member
- Feb 2, 2009
- 5,964
You might not pay much attention to them but plenty of people will, which is the Leave campaign's intention. If a government minister suggests that Turkey is about to join the EU, that the UK doesn't have a veto and 80m people could rock up down the road then people will be scared even if the woman is lying through her teeth. Not exaggerating. Lying.
And Hitler? I see you're taking the Jacob Rees-Mogg line that the sober Mr Johnson was drawing a narrow historical parallel between a specific aspect of Hitler's genocidal warmongering and the European Union. Come on! You know perfectly well what he was doing - he was trying to associate the 20th century's most hated tyrant with the EU.
I've said elsewhere that some of the Remain claims look simplistic to me but what are these compared to the Leavers' deliberately drawn visions of millions of murky Muslims on our doorstep as euro-tyrants march across the continent once again? These are nasty, manipulative and untrue and take scaremongering to a new level. Lightweight banter? Not really.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,312
i invite you to take it up with them, i've not really much time for a lot of it. i find the government backed and publicly paid for economic doom-casting a more significant matter that needs to be countered, and will do so.
Why are the remain camp sheep? Taking the tone of conspiracy theorists doesn't strengthen your argument. Interestingly, the sheep slur is often thrown at people who believe what they read in the mainstream media yet the Brexiters are backed and fed information by most of the MSM - The Mail, The Telegraph, The Times, The Sun, The Express.
Partially agreeing with you means nothing? Why? It's not a black and white battle between good and evil. Being well aware of its flaws, I'm no EU apparatchik. I can, however, see the benefits or remaining.
I've corrected it for with the Remain camps most favourite word.
How about
"it is demonstrably probable that Brexit will be a rolling cavalcade of inconvenience and pointless expense based upon all available indicators and informed analysis".