[Politics] 1st/2nd choice Referendum Poll

Baldseagull · Dec 14, 2018

pastafarian said:
The will of the living?.....Dont be such a ####

Floored me with that reasoned response there.
At some point the referendum result will be aged enough to no longer be valid, I say we have reached that point now, because the margin was so narrow, and the demographics would suggest that many more leave voters have left this world, and more remainers remain. Do you have a logical argument against that?

nicko31 · Dec 14, 2018

Private prosecution looms over Boris

https://metro.co.uk/2018/12/13/bori...espond-face-legal-action-brexit-lies-8245213/

it wasn't a bus, it was a coach....

nicko31 · Dec 14, 2018

Baldseagull said:
Floored me with that reasoned response there.
At some point the referendum result will be aged enough to no longer be valid, I say we have reached that point now, because the margin was so narrow, and the demographics would suggest that many more leave voters have left this world, and more remainers remain. Do you have a logical argument against that?

I know Albion is pro-remain, but even so, 82% do not want no deal.

If the Tories get this one wrong they really are finished....

Triggaaar · Dec 14, 2018

virtual22 said:
We hear this a lot, but we also were told that there would be an emergency budget, that the day after the vote there would be financial armageddon, that article 50 would be delivered the day after, that there would be wars and all sorts of other biblical disastrous events. Lets not kid ourselves that there wasn't a vast amount of bullshit from both sides in the run up to that vote, pretty much like every general election in this country as well.

Indeed. It's funny how people think it's only the other side that tells lies.

Triggaaar · Dec 14, 2018

clapham_gull said:
The thing about leave is that it is incredibly difficult to reverse the decision.

With remain it's much easier.

Why do you think that? If we left (hard Brexit), and then in the future a party pledged to rejoin in its election campaign, and won, the EU would want us back, as it would be good for them.

moggy · Dec 14, 2018

Remain ........ that is all

Baldseagull · Dec 14, 2018

rippleman said:
Then you wold presumably view democracy as "a terrible idea". Because let's face it, it is democracy that you would be undermining if we had a second referendum because you didn't like the result of the first!

I'm a left-wing leaver (from the Tony Benn school) and past couple of weeks I have been giving some thought of how I would have reacted if the result of the referendum had been to remain. I wasn't expecting Leave to win and was surprised when that was the result. However, had the vote gone against me I wouldn't have accused the remain voters that they "didn't understand what they were voting for". I wouldn't have been out on the streets demanding another referendum because I didn't win the first one. I would have accepted the result and moved on.

That's what the democratic process is all about. The majority wins the day.

I do believe a lot of people did not understand what they were voting for, but that is possibly in similar proportions for remain voters. The big problem is that you did not know, because you could not know, what Leave would actually deliver in terms of how close we are with the EU, we still don't know now.
A referendum with this deal as an option is still a little bit cloudy, but it does set out a clear intention.
The majority does indeed win the day, but that day was a fair while back now, both my children are now eligble to vote but were not the first time, as are about 1.4 million other young people, and many voters from 2016 are no longer with us.
I know that this fact may suit my particular agenda, but it is a fact nonetheless.

symyjym · Dec 14, 2018

I didn't vote because I was cynical of the campaign on both sides. The final straw in deciding not to vote was when Cameron claimed that a Brexit would lead to a war with Russia.

My real thoughts at the time was that it would be impossible to renegotiate 40 years of agreements in such a small time frame and this has turned out to be the case.

If all the people who didn't vote were counted as people not voting for change, the result would have been just 17m of the voting age were pro Brexit.

The vote should have been just a vote for Brexit not Remain. If you wanted Brexit vote for it, and if you were against or apathetic stay at home.
Done this way we would have got the real Brexit percentage which was about 20%. I am sure someone will correct this figure but it's a lot lower than the 52%

All the Brexit Tories ran a mile when they had an opportunity to step up to the job of PM and put into practice what they preached. It was very much like a scene out of The Apprentice when choosing a project leader and pushing someone else in as a suicide mission for your own future benefit after they get fired. If you want to present a food business to Lord Sugar, at least put yourself bloody forward to project manage the food task.

Thunder Bolt · Dec 14, 2018

Triggaaar said:
Why do you think that? If we left (hard Brexit), and then in the future a party pledged to rejoin in its election campaign, and won, the EU would want us back, as it would be good for them.

Yes, they would, but we would lose most of the privileges that we had negotiated over the last 40 years. We had a lot of rebates, power of veto etc.

Pretty pink fairy · Dec 14, 2018

THERE WAS ONLY ONE VOTING FORM THAT MATTERED
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ne...or-the-EU-referendum-vote-will-look-like.html
BYE BYE EU
regards
DR

Shooting Star · Dec 14, 2018

Baldseagull said:
The majority does indeed win the day, but that day was a fair while back now, both my children are now eligble to vote but were not the first time, as are about 1.4 million other young people, and many voters from 2016 are no longer with us.
I know that this fact may suit my particular agenda, but it is a fact nonetheless.

I'm sorry but you absolutely cannot base a democracy off of this sort of ideology.

Pretty pink fairy · Dec 14, 2018

Shooting Star said:
I'm sorry but you absolutely cannot base a democracy off of this sort of ideology.

he's desperate, reminds me of Tony blair
regards
DR

nicko31 · Dec 14, 2018

So 46 people on here think No Deal is acceptable, and think crashing out if the EU onto WTO rules is acceptable.

I'd be interested hearing arguments on how things are going to work

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmtAG4RtAp8

clapham_gull · Dec 14, 2018

Triggaaar said:
Why do you think that? If we left (hard Brexit), and then in the future a party pledged to rejoin in its election campaign, and won, the EU would want us back, as it would be good for them.

Because we would go back in as new members throwing away all the concessions that were negotiated all the way back to Thatcher.

Absolutely no way in hell the EU will hand back in a couple of years what has won in over 40.

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Triggaaar · Dec 14, 2018

clapham_gull said:
Because we would go back in as new members throwing away all the concessions that were negotiated all the way back to Thatcher.

What amazing concessions have we got, that no one else gets?

Eeyore · Dec 14, 2018

Remain- for now.

Maybe extend Article 50.

I don't know.

Leaving with no deal is insane. It's like a self destruct button. Most respectable authorities seem to suggest this.

Geestar · Dec 14, 2018

No one really knows so let's get on with what the majority voted for.

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Baldseagull · Dec 14, 2018

Shooting Star said:
I'm sorry but you absolutely cannot base a democracy off of this sort of ideology.

What ideology, logic? There has to be a point on time when the referendum result will be outdated, what point in time do you think that should be, and what is your reasoning behind that?

If we leave on the 29th of March, it is probable that there will be more remain voters still drawing breath than leave voters, I say that is undemocratic. You can't base a democracy on the will of deceased people.

symyjym · Dec 14, 2018

Geestar said:
No one really knows so let's get on with what the majority voted for.

Sent from my TA-1020 using Tapatalk

What about all the people who didn't vote? They were happy with the status quo after all. If we include those as Remainers, which effectively they are, then Brexit is only about 20%. The result doesn't really represent the public view. It was more like a badly worked survey than a referendum.

Baldseagull · Dec 14, 2018

Triggaaar said:
What amazing concessions have we got, that no one else gets?

Rebate on GDPPC based contributions, no one else gets that, no obligation to join the Euro, Denmark also gets that.

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[Politics] 1st/2nd choice Referendum Poll

What would be your 1st and 2nd options

No Deal / TMs deal

No Deal / Remain

TMs deal / No deal

TMs deal / Remain

Remain / TMs deal

Remain / No deal

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