[Politics] Brexit

beorhthelm · Mar 2, 2018

daveinprague said:
Well, just for your first example
EU rules mean the UK cannot reduce VAT on goods and services below 15%, the standard rate of VAT in the EU. The standard rate of VAT in the UK is 20%

which agrees with the point made, we do not have complete control of VAT. rules and regulations around VAT are all governed by EU, there are details on exemptions, zero-rating, special cases, and im sure we would continue to have it (under some name), but that is a fact..

JC Footy Genius · Mar 2, 2018

Garry Nelson's teacher said:
So another day, another opportunity for our PM to rise above the petty point-scoring and show us the Way Forward. I'm actually looking forward to it, but it does rather worry me that I'm turning into one of those folk who used to attend public hangings.
But let's give the lady a chance.................................Prepare to be seriously unimpressed.

As we know many on this thread would only be happy if she announced we were calling the whole thing off so she will be condemned no matter what she says.

Good chance to play a bit of Remoaner bingo though. Look out for … Red Bus, Mogg, Blue Passport, thick, ****, sold out, cake and eat it, Boris, not really leaving, ****, thought you'd get your country back, cliff edge, ****, Brextremists, we're doomed.

Might as well write their/your responses now

daveinprague · Mar 2, 2018

beorhthelm said:
which agrees with the point made, we do not have complete control of VAT. rules and regulations around VAT are all governed by EU, there are details on exemptions, zero-rating, special cases, and im sure we would continue to have it (under some name), but that is a fact..

however, at the end of the day, the UK pays 5% more VAT than Europe. That suggests an element of control. Why would somebody want to pay more exactly? Its never going to go down anyway in the UK as the country scrabbles for money.

BigGully · Mar 2, 2018

Garry Nelson's teacher said:
So another day, another opportunity for our PM to rise above the petty point-scoring and show us the Way Forward. I'm actually looking forward to it, but it does rather worry me that I'm turning into one of those folk who used to attend public hangings.
But let's give the lady a chance.................................Prepare to be seriously unimpressed.

But unless she stands up says ''we are Remaining'' you will never be impressed, what precisely would you like her to say that might impress you ?

Westdene Seagull · Mar 2, 2018

daveinprague said:
The fact that our VAT is higher than the EU's suggests to me, the UK does have control. Sanitry products, is something that has been mentioned more than once by the EU as something that will be changing. Who put the disgusting 8.5% VAT on gas and electricty? I dont even see 8.5? I see the figure of 5%, where you getting that figure from?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-35834142

Strange that you decide to make a big deal around me getting the figure incorrect but didn't comment on the main point of the post - "Tax policy should only be controlled by a national government not the EU."

Even at a stretch the EU should have some say on domestic tax rules IF the member state is in the Euro. Otherwise the EU shouldn't have ANY say in a member states taxation policies.

daveinprague · Mar 2, 2018

Westdene Seagull said:
Strange that you decide to make a big deal around me getting the figure incorrect but didn't comment on the main point of the post - "Tax policy should only be controlled by a national government not the EU."

Even at a stretch the EU should have some say on domestic tax rules IF the member state is in the Euro. Otherwise the EU shouldn't have ANY say in a member states taxation policies.

Its not strange at all. The UK pays 5% more than EU countries, and you want that controlled better by the UK? Do you think the UK, with the coming years of uncertainty are going to lower the VAT in the UK? Seriously?

...and nobody made a 'big deal' about you getting the figures wrong. Just asked where you got that figure from, as its incorrect. Youre being a touch melodramatic there.

'"Tax policy should only be controlled by a national government not the EU." ,,,,because you want to pay a higher rate of VAT?

beorhthelm · Mar 2, 2018

daveinprague said:
however, at the end of the day, the UK pays 5% more VAT than Europe....

it doesn't, the standard rate across most of Europe is 20% or above. only a handful have lower standard rates, by a couple of %. no country has a standard rate as low as 15%, Luxembourg is lowest with 17%. there are various reduced rate bands in other countries, usually for things we have zero-rated like food.

daveinprague · Mar 2, 2018

beorhthelm said:
it doesn't, the standard rate across most of Europe is 20% or above. only a handful have lower standard rates, by a couple of %. no country has a standard rate as low as 15%, Luxembourg is lowest with 17%. there are various reduced rate bands in other countries, usually for things we have zero-rated like food.

Yes, but the 20% is mostly for items that are not your usual suspects.
https://www.vatlive.com/vat-rates/european-vat-rates/

Would you say the UK VAT is better or worse than the EU?
I mean at even if it works out the same, its another pointless reason for leaving thats quoted as one of the reasons to leave.

Westdene Seagull · Mar 2, 2018

Berty23 said:
Someone else hasn't dismantled the issue re VAT.

No they haven't.

Berty23 said:
May I ask which part of fisheries policy you don't like? I find it slightly amusing that Grimsby asking for special deal.

EU policy has decimated our fishing industry. Agreed quotas need to be in place but we should decide how much is caught in our waters by UK based fisherman. I also don't like the EUs incredibly slow reaction to discards - in fact the EU treated the UK campaign against them with some disdain as to not upset the French and Spanish.

Berty23 said:
What is your particular dislike over animal cruelty? We can treat animals better than the minimum standard and unless you want to be cruel to animals then I don't see the issue.

All ready covered in depth previously on this thread but in summary, we are not allowed to ban the imports of animal products from the EU created using animal cruelty.

Berty23 said:
We decided not to put some controls in place in 2004 with A8 countries and we have growing immigration from outside the EU which we can control. We see record levels of employment and research shows that immigrants contribute more than they take. Can I ask what you would change about immigration?

I'd immediately prevent EU migrants from being able to claim benefits. I'd also place the same controls on people migrating from the EU as we place on non-EU migrants.

Berty23 said:
I understand people with issues about European court but that is one of the costs of being part of a far more powerful group than we ever could be on ourselves.

And yet you dismiss the point.

Berty23 said:
Re displaying prices....I suspect this is the REAL issue. Like it really matters that prices should be easily understood. It is a weird British obsession with imperial.

It's not the REAL issue so you're wrong. That's why it was an edit - an after thought. You can dismiss it as much as you like but people went to prison to stand up against the ridiculous regulation. Why do the EU have such an obsession with standardising everything ?

Westdene Seagull · Mar 2, 2018

daveinprague said:
'"Tax policy should only be controlled by a national government not the EU." ,,,,because you want to pay a higher rate of VAT?

No, because the EU has no right to meddle in domestic tax policy.

daveinprague · Mar 2, 2018

Westdene Seagull said:
No, because the EU has no right to meddle in domestic tax policy.

and youre happy to pay more VAT for this position?

Westdene Seagull · Mar 2, 2018

daveinprague said:
and youre happy to pay more VAT for this position?

On SOME goods/services we already do so your point is what exactly ? I just want the UK government to have full control of UK tax policy - not sure why you can't understand such a simple point.

CHAPPERS · Mar 2, 2018

Pretty Plnk Fairy said:
You tobys are all the same we want our country back understand? you want example of brussels telling us what to do?One word, bendy bananas

regards
DR

ManOfSussex · Mar 2, 2018

Klaas said:

In case you weren't aware that was the parody fairy account, hence why the post was almost intelligible.

beorhthelm · Mar 2, 2018

daveinprague said:
Yes, but the 20% is mostly for items that are not your usual suspects.
https://www.vatlive.com/vat-rates/european-vat-rates/

Would you say the UK VAT is better or worse than the EU?
I mean at even if it works out the same, its another pointless reason for leaving thats quoted as one of the reasons to leave.

given we're about the only country having 0% on basic foods, childrens clothing, building, and water (to mention a few), i'd say we're probably doing better. it might be balanced out by more classes of items being 20% rated rather than in a reduced catagory, one would have to do some comparison on weekly/monthly/yearly expenditure. either way, the fact that its prescribed what we can and cant do on this area of taxation is really the point.

Lincoln Imp · Mar 2, 2018

dingodan said:
I think the issue is that people would rather that we pass laws ourselves, and we can elect representatives (or kick them out) in order to ensure that we control the way our country is run.

You've asked me about an EU law I might agree with, but what if there was an EU law that you disagreed with? At least if there is an EU law which is good we could always lobby for it to be passed in this country, what would your approach be to dealing with an EU law which you considered to be bad? Imagine in 15 years time we have an ultra right wing EU commission and they want to pass laws protecting CC companies and their CC charges? What would your approach be to dealing with that?

An interesting and absolutely central conversation going on here.

For me, the issue is finding the appropriate level for decisions to be made.

For example, I would like my parish council to have more power so that I, as a villager, could have more influence over - say - planning decisions. At a level above, the responsibilities of district, county or unitary authorities needs looking at so that local people are more likely to participate in their processes.

Other decisions, involving things such as education, defence and social policy perhaps, are properly made in Westminster, Edinburgh, Cardiff or Stormont.

As the decision-making level rises, so the influence of the individual voter inevitably reduces. That’s a given - as a village parishioner I am obviously able to influence things more than I am as an English voter. (That would still be true even if we had a half-decent national voting system.)

People do not generally worry about this. Remainers and Leavers alike accept it.

Where the division happens is when we go beyond Westminster. Remainers are generally relaxed that the straight line described above continues - that policies affecting a group of like-minded and friendly nations are made at a level beyond. Naturally the level of individual influence continues to reduce, but only in the same way as it has since we left the parish council offices behind. There is no change of principle.

Leavers, on the other hand, become concerned when that final level is reached. They are relaxed as the process of increasing power and reducing influence rises from village and ward to town and city and onwards to the streets of London, but become alarmed at the last stage in the continuum.

They think it is different. As a Remainer I don’t think it is, apart from the fact that our neighbours are involved. I have no problem with that. Leavers do. That is one big difference between us.

WATFORD zero · Mar 2, 2018

vegster said:
The EU directive outlawing mobile telephone roaming charges is another good example of the system working for the people. Vodafone,EE, Three and the others were only to pleased to stitch us for extra costs whenever we landed in France.

They finally fell in to line and somehow their businesses have not collapsed since being forced to abandon the extra charges. Of course, this little victory will disappear in March 2019 or two years later most probably.

It's almost as if you need a multi-national government to stop multi-national companies stomping all over individual nations legislation. Who would have thought it

Westdene Seagull · Mar 2, 2018

The Clamp said:
I asked you which laws, not the results of those laws. If you don't even know which laws and legislation you claim not to like, there's not much hope in a sensible answer from you.

Says the person that NEVER actually answers any question put to him.

daveinprague · Mar 2, 2018

Westdene Seagull said:
On SOME goods/services we already do so your point is what exactly ? I just want the UK government to have full control of UK tax policy - not sure why you can't understand such a simple point.

I understand the point, its wanting to pay more and possibly much more as the country scrambles for money in the uncertain future we now face. thats a bit baffling

ManOfSussex · Mar 2, 2018

nicko31 said:
Any predictions for what May will have to say tomorrow? Anything of significance or more La La Land politics?

Lots of soundbites but zero substance. Basically, same old ****, different day.

I'm sure it will down really well with some of The Brexiteers though, who'll be fist pumping and spinning things more furiously than Shane Warne at The SCG as if some substantial progress has been made. They do like their speeches.

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