East Preston Gull
New member
This, unfortunately we have all been pawns in a game.
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[Politics] Brexit
- Thread starter KingstonSeagull
- Start date
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Seasider78
Well-known member
- Nov 14, 2004
- 5,941
One way of looking at this is asking why this country has such a historically negative perception of the EU as this was not suddenly formed in this short referendum campaign.
For years successive governments have failed to play an active and central role in the Eu and used the EU as a kicking post with everything from straight bananas to labelling members bureaucrats.
This rhetoric has been played out for years and then weeks out of decision the record is changed and the EU is all of a sudden the best club in the world. And we wonder why people are negatively hard coded with anti EU sentiment!!!
Perhaps if successive governments wanted more support for the EU they should have made a bit more effort participating positively and promoting the membership benefits to the general public.
This was written by Luke Flanagan MEP....yesterday.
At todays European Parliament extraordinary meeting on Brexit there will not be a single Republic of Ireland MEP allowed to speak. The core, EPP and S&D, groups have decided that it is wiser to only let group leaders speak. My group fought it but were in the end ignored. The EU has learned nothing.
This is my press release on the issue.
GAGGED
Today there was a ‘debate’ in a special Plenary – the sitting of the European Parliament – on Brexit.
Now I think the world knows that this was a fairly significant event for all concerned; for the UK itself, for the EU, but also for Ireland, given our ties to Britain. I was looking forward then to taking part in what was sure to be a robust discussion, contribute my own tuppence-worth.
But here is what actually happened, and here also is all that’s rotten about this place, here is why I believe the UK has taken the right decision.
THE GRAND COALITION
I've mentioned this before but the European Parliament is dominated by what’s known as The Grand Coalition, with the EPP (215 MEPs, the ironically titled European People’s Party which, more than any other, works in the interests of big business; they are the major supporters in parliament of neoliberalism and austerity), the S&D (190 MEPs, the Socialists and Democrats, though in fact they’re neither) and ALDE (70 MEPs, Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe) having 475 seats between them, a huge majority in a chamber of 751 members.
Between them, and along with the Greens, they have come up with what’s called a Joint Motion for a Resolution on Brexit; this was to form the basis of the debate.
Yesterday our group – GUE/NGL – was discussing our proposed Amendments to that Resolution; just after 4.00pm, in the middle of that discussion, we got word from the Tabling Office that the deadline for amendments had been brought forward an hour, from 6.00pm to 5.00pm. In a group of real politics, a dozen different opinions and all strongly held, this created an utterly unfair situation but we nevertheless managed to squeeze in few amendments before the deadline.
At that meeting the procedure for the Plenary ‘debate’ was also outlined to us, as decided by the Grand Coalition. And it’s a travesty. In this so-called Parliament, the only EU institution (as we’re are constantly reminded) with a true democratic mandate, what we are offered is in fact a denial of democracy.
WHEN IS A DEBATE NOT A DEBATE?
There was no debate. The Council spoke, Jeanine Hennis-Plasschaert – you know her, right, our Jeanine, Dutch Minister of Defence? Jeanine was followed by the Commission, its egoist President Jean Claude Juncker doing his usual stunt and making this all about him. Each group’s leader was then given a speaking slot but the time allowed was in proportion to the size of the group; EPP got 8’30”, S&D got 6’ – our speaker, Gabi Zimmer, got 3’.
We then got to hear more platitudes about unity and all standing together from the Council and from Juncker, five minutes each, each of the groups getting a minute to reply to that. Juncker though didn’t bother to wait around for that; the important part of the morning – his contributions – were all over.
Two northern Ireland MEPs – Diane Dodds and Martina Anderson – got to speak in this slot but that was it. Then we voted, with the Grand Coalition rejecting all our amendments and forcing through its own Motion for a Resolution.
And that’s it. That’s the European Parliament and the way it operates.
WHAT WOULD I HAVE SAID?
I would have pointed out that, as even a cursory glance at the demographics shows, this was a victory for the disenfranchised, for those who have been most damaged by the grand-plan neoliberal policies of the austerity-promoting EU.
I would have pointed out that this grand plan for the EU was never a project of the left, that it was founded on facilitating big business and that with CETA and TTIP and all the other ‘free trade agreements’ now being pushed through by the Commission, the Council and the EPP-dominated Parliament, that agenda is now accelerated.
I would have told them that in stating over and over again that this was a win for the extreme right, the left is handing over a victory that in fact was the result of an across-the-board effort and that in doing so, they are handing the extreme right a major boost – everyone loves a winner, right?
I would have given them a little history, the fact that it was a British government that gave us the NHS and that is the EU now, through TTIP that threatens to take that away; the fact that it was a British government that gave us modern-day labour laws including the 40-hr week, overtime etc, long before there was ever an EU, but that it is the same EU now, again through TTIP and the like, that is going to dilute those hard-gained labour rights.
I would have said that rather than castigating the British who voted for Brexit, painting them all as racists and xenophobes, we should applaud them in the way we applauded the Greeks who similarly voted in a way that wasn’t acceptable to the EU, despite also the fact that as in the UK, all the major forces were aligned against them and threatening them with Armageddon.
So much that I’ve had said. But I was gagged, and apart from a few at the top table, we were all gagged.
And here’s the really sad part.
‘Lord’ Jonathan Hill is the British Commissioner, a Eurosceptic turned Europhile and a guy who, more than any other, has fought tooth and nail to protect the interests of the financial sector in the City of London but also across the EU, a neoliberal hawk of hawks; he was given a standing ovation by the S&D.
This Parliament, this EU, is now beyond parody. We all need to do what the UK has just voted to do; we need to get out
At todays European Parliament extraordinary meeting on Brexit there will not be a single Republic of Ireland MEP allowed to speak. The core, EPP and S&D, groups have decided that it is wiser to only let group leaders speak. My group fought it but were in the end ignored. The EU has learned nothing.
This is my press release on the issue.
GAGGED
Today there was a ‘debate’ in a special Plenary – the sitting of the European Parliament – on Brexit.
Now I think the world knows that this was a fairly significant event for all concerned; for the UK itself, for the EU, but also for Ireland, given our ties to Britain. I was looking forward then to taking part in what was sure to be a robust discussion, contribute my own tuppence-worth.
But here is what actually happened, and here also is all that’s rotten about this place, here is why I believe the UK has taken the right decision.
THE GRAND COALITION
I've mentioned this before but the European Parliament is dominated by what’s known as The Grand Coalition, with the EPP (215 MEPs, the ironically titled European People’s Party which, more than any other, works in the interests of big business; they are the major supporters in parliament of neoliberalism and austerity), the S&D (190 MEPs, the Socialists and Democrats, though in fact they’re neither) and ALDE (70 MEPs, Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe) having 475 seats between them, a huge majority in a chamber of 751 members.
Between them, and along with the Greens, they have come up with what’s called a Joint Motion for a Resolution on Brexit; this was to form the basis of the debate.
Yesterday our group – GUE/NGL – was discussing our proposed Amendments to that Resolution; just after 4.00pm, in the middle of that discussion, we got word from the Tabling Office that the deadline for amendments had been brought forward an hour, from 6.00pm to 5.00pm. In a group of real politics, a dozen different opinions and all strongly held, this created an utterly unfair situation but we nevertheless managed to squeeze in few amendments before the deadline.
At that meeting the procedure for the Plenary ‘debate’ was also outlined to us, as decided by the Grand Coalition. And it’s a travesty. In this so-called Parliament, the only EU institution (as we’re are constantly reminded) with a true democratic mandate, what we are offered is in fact a denial of democracy.
WHEN IS A DEBATE NOT A DEBATE?
There was no debate. The Council spoke, Jeanine Hennis-Plasschaert – you know her, right, our Jeanine, Dutch Minister of Defence? Jeanine was followed by the Commission, its egoist President Jean Claude Juncker doing his usual stunt and making this all about him. Each group’s leader was then given a speaking slot but the time allowed was in proportion to the size of the group; EPP got 8’30”, S&D got 6’ – our speaker, Gabi Zimmer, got 3’.
We then got to hear more platitudes about unity and all standing together from the Council and from Juncker, five minutes each, each of the groups getting a minute to reply to that. Juncker though didn’t bother to wait around for that; the important part of the morning – his contributions – were all over.
Two northern Ireland MEPs – Diane Dodds and Martina Anderson – got to speak in this slot but that was it. Then we voted, with the Grand Coalition rejecting all our amendments and forcing through its own Motion for a Resolution.
And that’s it. That’s the European Parliament and the way it operates.
WHAT WOULD I HAVE SAID?
I would have pointed out that, as even a cursory glance at the demographics shows, this was a victory for the disenfranchised, for those who have been most damaged by the grand-plan neoliberal policies of the austerity-promoting EU.
I would have pointed out that this grand plan for the EU was never a project of the left, that it was founded on facilitating big business and that with CETA and TTIP and all the other ‘free trade agreements’ now being pushed through by the Commission, the Council and the EPP-dominated Parliament, that agenda is now accelerated.
I would have told them that in stating over and over again that this was a win for the extreme right, the left is handing over a victory that in fact was the result of an across-the-board effort and that in doing so, they are handing the extreme right a major boost – everyone loves a winner, right?
I would have given them a little history, the fact that it was a British government that gave us the NHS and that is the EU now, through TTIP that threatens to take that away; the fact that it was a British government that gave us modern-day labour laws including the 40-hr week, overtime etc, long before there was ever an EU, but that it is the same EU now, again through TTIP and the like, that is going to dilute those hard-gained labour rights.
I would have said that rather than castigating the British who voted for Brexit, painting them all as racists and xenophobes, we should applaud them in the way we applauded the Greeks who similarly voted in a way that wasn’t acceptable to the EU, despite also the fact that as in the UK, all the major forces were aligned against them and threatening them with Armageddon.
So much that I’ve had said. But I was gagged, and apart from a few at the top table, we were all gagged.
And here’s the really sad part.
‘Lord’ Jonathan Hill is the British Commissioner, a Eurosceptic turned Europhile and a guy who, more than any other, has fought tooth and nail to protect the interests of the financial sector in the City of London but also across the EU, a neoliberal hawk of hawks; he was given a standing ovation by the S&D.
This Parliament, this EU, is now beyond parody. We all need to do what the UK has just voted to do; we need to get out
The Fifth Column
Retired ex-cop
All press speculation with no basis in fact, no negotiations have taken place or are due to until Article 50 has been invoked.
The Fifth Column
Retired ex-cop
Probably too busy checking their bank accounts to see how much money they've made today.
D
Deleted member 22389
Guest
East Preston Gull
New member
Spain and France have said no chance of independent Scotland joining the EU.
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Green Cross Code Man
Wunt be druv
Hardly a surprise for Spain at least. No way do they want 'regions' of a country to be allowed the right to negotiate directly with the EU. Spain would split into 2 or perhaps 3 parts. Maybe even 4.
Hampster Gull
New member
- Dec 22, 2010
- 13,462
Brexiters on here getting upset that a post referendum EU is not looking after the interests of the UK! 
and even against their own interests, no surpise for a while
and even against their own interests, no surpise for a while
Southern Scouse
Well-known member
- Jul 21, 2011
- 2,026
Good for you mate, however it cost me my career and at my age it's not easy to start all over.
Baldseagull
Well-known member
Yes it is speculation, which is why I said likely, rather than will, but it is based on fact, Switzerland adopt bit by bit, and Norway automatically have sections of E.U. legislation that they adopt.
Yoda
English & European
I will say it once again as it's now some 150 odd pages back. The FTSE100 is made up of mostly International companies, so I'm not surprised it has recovered. The FTSE250, which is where most of the British companies reside is still some 1,200-1,300 points DOWN from before the Brexit result and hasn't even recovered half of what it lost yet.
The reason for the recovery is the shock has passed, but may I remind you. We have not left the EU yet. The biggest test will be when we do actually leave and under what terms.
Baldseagull
Well-known member
Some of the Basque region is in France.
Southern Scouse
Well-known member
- Jul 21, 2011
- 2,026
Good for you mate, however it cost me my career and at my age it's not easy to start all over.
The Fifth Column
Retired ex-cop
My wife voted in, I voted out - far from being a frosty atmosphere its actually got us talking and debating the issues quite amicably. Kids are 13 & 9 so not really any interest in it.
Baldseagull
Well-known member
Poison dwarf crankie wont get anywhere with France and Spain.
Catalan / Catalá
Total no. of speakers in Europe: 5 m - 7 m
Where spoken: No. of speakers % of the population
Catalonia in north-east Spain
South-west France
No. of speakers world-wide 7 m
Language notes
Catalan is the language of the people of Catalonia. It is a member of the Romance family of languages.
The pricipal city of the region is Barcelona, which was the capital of a flourishing kingdom in the middle ages.
Like the Basques in the north-east, the Catalans have been subjected to repression over the centuries. Today they enjoy a measure of autonomy.
In Catalonia the Catalan language now has equal status with Spanish. The language is used in all walks of life and is the medium of instruction in the schools.
A number of Catalan newspapers and periodicals attest to its vitality.
The economic prosperity of the area attracts workers from far and wide, who are encouraged to learn the language. One result of this influx is that the proportion of Catalan-speakers in Barcelona has been declining in recent years.
France and Spain would worry that area would follow I guess.
Catalan / Catalá
Total no. of speakers in Europe: 5 m - 7 m
Where spoken: No. of speakers % of the population
Catalonia in north-east Spain
South-west France
No. of speakers world-wide 7 m
Language notes
Catalan is the language of the people of Catalonia. It is a member of the Romance family of languages.
The pricipal city of the region is Barcelona, which was the capital of a flourishing kingdom in the middle ages.
Like the Basques in the north-east, the Catalans have been subjected to repression over the centuries. Today they enjoy a measure of autonomy.
In Catalonia the Catalan language now has equal status with Spanish. The language is used in all walks of life and is the medium of instruction in the schools.
A number of Catalan newspapers and periodicals attest to its vitality.
The economic prosperity of the area attracts workers from far and wide, who are encouraged to learn the language. One result of this influx is that the proportion of Catalan-speakers in Barcelona has been declining in recent years.
France and Spain would worry that area would follow I guess.
Seagull58
In the Algarve
I had nothing to correct. I expanded on my original comments several times until you got the point.
drew
Drew
There has been talk that Australia and New Zealand are looking into a free trade and free movement agreement with the UK which is apparently supported by Daniel Hannan. Further evidence that immigration was not really the main issue.