D Day for my wife and the rest of the school

AlbionPics&SouthCoastTwit · Apr 22, 2015

Westdene Seagull said:
But then again he wants to be a police officer which clearly I need to beat out of him ! ). Instead, I want them to have enjoyable, fulfilling careers doing something they like.

Whoa! Now wait a minute. What makes you think your son can't enjoy being a police officer. The satisfaction of solving a case and protecting people and saving their lives can be beyond enjoyable.

I'm as serious as the WWE!

Herr Tubthumper · Apr 22, 2015

granny weatherwax said:
Not exactly...has to reapply for her own job and cuts around the school.

I wish you and her well. Education is one of the biggest assets of a nation in my opinion. To treat it like this is bull shit. And to treat the talent within the system like this is crap.

Hastings gull · Apr 22, 2015

GreersElbow said:
There may well be a slight over-exaggeration, of course, I can't speak on behalf of the nation. It's why I had to emphasis my experience from Hove Park to enforce what little I had. I think I articulated what I meant by kids don't think they have to work. I didn't intend it to come across as though they see the state hand outs as an alternative, it's more the work ethic and I'll hold my hands up. However, from my personal experience and anyone can challenge this; there's a dichotomy in ambition. Either kids want the extreme riches of a professional football player or celebrity or they don't have much ambition past school.
Exam results are not the actual problem, I think the real problem lies in the transferability of skills and qualities. However, I think the emphasis is misplaced. It ought to be on what the pupil aspires to do. Trades generally from what I can gather, don't necessarily require A*s. Damn, they bloody well help. But if a young lad wants to become a mechanic, I think the emphasis is misplaced on what he needs to do, to do well in that trade. It'd require a massive reform of the education system and I'd have no clue how to implement it.

I generally agree with you about grade inflation. I thought my English literature and language exams were far too easy and I was lazy during my GCSEs and still got Cs.

Thanks for your reply. You are right in that kids do have unrealistic ambitions, usually to want to be a footballer, but as they get older, this changes, as they realise. I too wanted to play for the Albion but very soon realised that others were so much better than I, but looking at this season . . . I think what you are saying is horses for courses, and I could not agree more. In the 60s, when I went to school, there were three choices at secondary level - Grammar, Secondary Mod and the Technical School, which usually (and roughly) had kids whose ability was inbetween the two. This all went, as the rush for egalitariansim in the 70s deemed that we should not judge children, or separate them, and so comprehensives were introduced. So instead of separating the schools, children were in sets within the school, as you cannot get over the fact that we all have differing abilities. I am NOT trying to be politicial at all, by the way.
The old system did have its merits, as I feel that the Techinical Schools did prepare children who were not academic, for life, with workshops and a proliferation of courses relating to later types of employment. Not all children are suited for university, but are somehow "pushed" in the direction, which is a shame.

Hastings gull · Apr 22, 2015

Westdene Seagull said:
I think you're being a tad harsh on the education system. The biggest problem, IMHO, lies with the parents. I have three children spread across three different schools and each of them fully understands the need to work and to have realistic ambitions. What always amazes me is when they have friends round how many don't have the simple things in life that help instill that sense of pride and hard work into them. A perfect example is to sit down as a family and eat. I get Monday to Friday is hard for most parents to do this but the weekend ? We ensure both days we have a family meal where everyone sits down and discusses life - what they've done at school that week, what homework they still have to do, what they think they might like to do as a job etc. Yet many of their friends don't do this and enjoy it when they come round our house and sit down with us for said meals. Instead many parents seem to think iPads and the internet are some sort of substitute. My kids get time limits on these activities.

Schools are there to teach knowledge but parents should be teaching life skills. My two sons do a lot of Scouting and even I, as an untrained parent, can see the difference in their attitude to things like problem solving and team work when compared to their friends that don't do that kind of activity.

Where I do agree with you absolutely entirely is careers advice in schools. I left school over two decades before you and even then the careers advice was basically 'Go to Uni'. With hindsight, how I wished I'd known about Plumpton College, or maybe the possibility of doing a chef course outside the Uni system. This utterly ridiculous idea that everyone should go to Uni was only exasperated by the previous Labour government. Not everyone is suited to Uni and not everyone wants a job that requires a Uni education. This is not helped by the expectation of many parents - I argued many a time with my parents when I told them I didn't want to go to Uni ( in the end we compromised and I went to Poly for two years and I hated it ). I have no expectations on my children that they go to Uni ( although I'd be surprised if my eldest son didn't as he's very academic unlike the other two. But then again he wants to be a police officer which clearly I need to beat out of him ! ). Instead, I want them to have enjoyable, fulfilling careers doing something they like. It annoys the hell out of me that kids nowadays seem to think they HAVE to go to Uni ( shit, that makes me sound old ).

Fascinating post and agree with so much of it. With respect, you do contradict yourself in the final para - either you want your son to have a fulfilling career or you don't! My daughter has been with Sussex Police for years and loves the job. The money isn't bad eiather. Your son is clearly quite bright, and, all being well,will rise quickly withing the ranks, and is precisely the sort of person our society needs. Don't beat it out of him -appreciate that this was probably jocular!
Are you still in Westdene? I was brought up in Westdene Drive . .

Return of the Rev · Apr 22, 2015

clippedgull said:
Sorry to hear that

On a positive note when amex got shot of alot of us it gave the opportunity for new adventures! 17 years at amex was turning into a life setence as we know clip!

Hastings gull · Apr 22, 2015

Return of the Rev said:
On a positive note when amex got shot of alot of us it gave the opportunity for new adventures! 17 years at amex was turning into a life setence as we know clip!

4 years at the amex after this year also seems like a life sentence!

Return of the Rev · Apr 22, 2015

Hastings gull said:
4 years at the amex after this year also seems like a life sentence!

Joined in 77 made redundant 94 same year i started a family :facepalm:

Westdene Seagull · Apr 22, 2015

Hastings gull said:
Fascinating post and agree with so much of it. With respect, you do contradict yourself in the final para - either you want your son to have a fulfilling career or you don't! My daughter has been with Sussex Police for years and loves the job. The money isn't bad eiather. Your son is clearly quite bright, and, all being well,will rise quickly withing the ranks, and is precisely the sort of person our society needs. Don't beat it out of him -appreciate that this was probably jocular!
Are you still in Westdene? I was brought up in Westdene Drive . .

Yes, the bit about being a police officer was meant to be jocular ( and was actually very unfunny ). I lived in Mill Rise for about 5 years.

Garage_Doors · Apr 22, 2015

My wife as work at a school for the past 14 years in various capacities from a midday recreational supervisor ( dinner lady) to INA and has always previously had re re apply each year but a couple of years ago was put on a permanent contract, is she still affected by the changes?

Chicken Run · Apr 22, 2015

Return of the Rev said:
On a positive note when amex got shot of alot of us it gave the opportunity for new adventures! 17 years at amex was turning into a life setence as we know clip!

A lot of "lifers"at Amex if made redundant struggle these days working in a new environment that to be frank isn't as cushy as what they were accustomed to.

Hotchilidog · Apr 22, 2015

granny weatherwax said:
Not exactly...has to reapply for her own job and cuts around the school.

Sorry to hear that Dave. I hope she is successful with her re-application. All the best.

Publius Ovidius · Apr 22, 2015

Programme_Seller said:
My wife as work at a school for the past 14 years in various capacities from a midday recreational supervisor ( dinner lady) to INA and has always previously had re re apply each year but a couple of years ago was put on a permanent contract, is she still affected by the changes?

I think it depends on school by school...I have heard of schools planning serious culling of their staff to others who have not yet made their mind up.

The law of unintended consequences, which actually in my job as European Change Manager I look to minimise as much as possible, has been at work with the school meals for all liberal policy. So the reception, year one and year two kids Now all get a free school meal. BUT in the past that was only available to the poorest in our society. So in effect it was brilliant that all kids get a decent mean...th unintended consequence was that schools as part of their funding formula were allocated cash based on free school meals. Now that has stopped so a huge chunk of their budgets have gone....to get around it, the schools have to contact those parents/ guardians who used to receive the free meals and ask them to sign a bit of paper saying they were receiving them by right...then the school collects them and submits a claim based on the responses. Trouble is the stigma of signing that paper puts people off, the " I can't be arsed" factor comes into play...higher than you would imagine, the " I hate school therefore why should I " is also prevalent. So where we got in x amount for free school meals, that is now around 15% of what it was.

I was a parent governor and LEA appointed governor and I advise anyone who has a child at a school that wants governors to put themselves forward. Even if it is just for a year...it will open your eyes as to how state schools are funded and the stuff we had to do for meddling government departments obsessed with political dogma.

Publius Ovidius · Apr 22, 2015

Hotchilidog said:
Sorry to hear that Dave. I hope she is successful with her re-application. All the best.

Cheers mate . Fingers crossed. It must be horrible working there at the moment with the inevitable..." Well I work harder that you, I should get it"

clippedgull · Apr 22, 2015

Return of the Rev said:
On a positive note when amex got shot of alot of us it gave the opportunity for new adventures! 17 years at amex was turning into a life setence as we know clip!

Indeed! It seems so long ago now Rev

Tom Hark Preston Park · Apr 22, 2015

granny weatherwax said:
Not exactly...has to reapply for her own job and cuts around the school.

Very sorry to hear that Dave. Wishing your wife all the very best of luck.

Getting people to reapply for their own jobs always seems to me to be slyest, most cynical way of going about things. It allows the employer to issue impersonal 'thank you for recent application' type letters as they see fit complete with arbitrary decisions on employee's futures based on nothing other than counting the beans. Shameful.

Biscuit · Apr 22, 2015

Westdene Seagull said:
I think you're being a tad harsh on the education system. The biggest problem, IMHO, lies with the parents. I have three children spread across three different schools and each of them fully understands the need to work and to have realistic ambitions. What always amazes me is when they have friends round how many don't have the simple things in life that help instill that sense of pride and hard work into them. A perfect example is to sit down as a family and eat. I get Monday to Friday is hard for most parents to do this but the weekend ? We ensure both days we have a family meal where everyone sits down and discusses life - what they've done at school that week, what homework they still have to do, what they think they might like to do as a job etc. Yet many of their friends don't do this and enjoy it when they come round our house and sit down with us for said meals. Instead many parents seem to think iPads and the internet are some sort of substitute. My kids get time limits on these activities.

Schools are there to teach knowledge but parents should be teaching life skills. My two sons do a lot of Scouting and even I, as an untrained parent, can see the difference in their attitude to things like problem solving and team work when compared to their friends that don't do that kind of activity.

Where I do agree with you absolutely entirely is careers advice in schools. I left school over two decades before you and even then the careers advice was basically 'Go to Uni'. With hindsight, how I wished I'd known about Plumpton College, or maybe the possibility of doing a chef course outside the Uni system. This utterly ridiculous idea that everyone should go to Uni was only exasperated by the previous Labour government. Not everyone is suited to Uni and not everyone wants a job that requires a Uni education. This is not helped by the expectation of many parents - I argued many a time with my parents when I told them I didn't want to go to Uni ( in the end we compromised and I went to Poly for two years and I hated it ). I have no expectations on my children that they go to Uni ( although I'd be surprised if my eldest son didn't as he's very academic unlike the other two. But then again he wants to be a police officer which clearly I need to beat out of him ! ). Instead, I want them to have enjoyable, fulfilling careers doing something they like. It annoys the hell out of me that kids nowadays seem to think they HAVE to go to Uni ( shit, that makes me sound old ).

Very much agree with this. It seems to me the people who say "Citizenship/Religious Education/Careers/Chinese/How to tie shoelaces etc (delete as appropriate)- needs to be taught in school!" are often the first to complain "Why are schools not spending more time on core literacy and numeracy?"

A full, well-rounded education is the responsibility of parents - not just the teachers.

jakarta · Apr 22, 2015

Biscuit said:
Very much agree with this. It seems to me the people who say "Citizenship/Religious Education/Careers/Chinese/How to tie shoelaces etc (delete as appropriate)- needs to be taught in school!" are often the first to complain "Why are schools not spending more time on core literacy and numeracy?"

A full, well-rounded education is the responsibility of parents - not just the teachers.

Two sensible posts on the trot - this can't be NSC......

By the way Mrs Jakarta was in education for 37 years as Teacher, Head of Department, Deputy Head and finally Head - she is very happy to have retired and not have to put up with the nonsense inflicted by politicians of all stripes on her profession.

Then became a Governor at our local Primary - still don't quite understand that one! :wink:

Jim Van Winkle · Apr 22, 2015

Triggaaar said:
That doesn't have to be your role in life Rev. Indeed, it would be no harm if no one filled that role. You know that, as a group of footy fans, we're suffering at the moment - could you not help ease our suffering by easing off the bellocks?

Maybe we could get [MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION] to replace 'were loose' on the banner with 'never mind the bellocks'?

Hastings gull · Apr 22, 2015

granny weatherwax said:
I think it depends on school by school...I have heard of schools planning serious culling of their staff to others who have not yet made their mind up.

The law of unintended consequences, which actually in my job as European Change Manager I look to minimise as much as possible, has been at work with the school meals for all liberal policy. So the reception, year one and year two kids Now all get a free school meal. BUT in the past that was only available to the poorest in our society. So in effect it was brilliant that all kids get a decent mean...th unintended consequence was that schools as part of their funding formula were allocated cash based on free school meals. Now that has stopped so a huge chunk of their budgets have gone....to get around it, the schools have to contact those parents/ guardians who used to receive the free meals and ask them to sign a bit of paper saying they were receiving them by right...then the school collects them and submits a claim based on the responses. Trouble is the stigma of signing that paper puts people off, the " I can't be arsed" factor comes into play...higher than you would imagine, the " I hate school therefore why should I " is also prevalent. So where we got in x amount for free school meals, that is now around 15% of what it was.

I was a parent governor and LEA appointed governor and I advise anyone who has a child at a school that wants governors to put themselves forward. Even if it is just for a year...it will open your eyes as to how state schools are funded and the stuff we had to do for meddling government departments obsessed with political dogma.

You are quite right in what you describe. I am a clerk to governing bodies and at all of the three schools where I work, they were faced with this dilemma, but all three have scooped up the signatures to the extent that they do not feel that they have missed anyone! I think your figure of 15%, whilst it may be accurate in your own experience, is not generally so, though the reasons you give as to why parents don't sign are genuine. The losses can of course vary - if you are in a deprived area, then you could have over 50% of kids on free school meals, but a village school in a leafy corner will have far less "ever 6" to quote the jargon. This loss alone would not be enough to explain wholesale staff redundancies, but could still run into thousands, granted.
I certainly echo your final para -but how many people in their right mind would want to sign up to be a governor, once they see what extreme amounts of paperwork are involved. In fact the system is a bit of a fraud, as school governors, who commendably volunteer to help, could not possibly be expected to find the time to wade through hundreds of pages of policies and now the latest obsession, safeguarding. Yet are held accountable.

Hastings gull · Apr 22, 2015

Jim Van Winkle said:
Maybe we could get [MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION] to replace 'were loose' on the banner with 'never mind the bellocks'?

I have never wanted to start a thread as to why "were loose" appears in case it was blindingly obvious and I missed something. But I have now summed up the necessary courage to ask what it actually means or is supposed to mean?

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