General Election 2017

Triggaaar · Apr 26, 2017

Herr Tubthumper said:
You're not making much sense here. Have another go at whatever it is you're trying to say.

Seems pretty clear to me. 16% are voting Labour, which is a minority, but it is heathgate's opinion that lefties like you are very vocal and give the impression that your opinion is the majority one.

vegster · Apr 26, 2017

heathgate said:
........ and swathes of Labour heartland voters have voted Labour simply because they always have, their father and his father before that always have, everyone at the local working mans club did too...... why is that voting tradition any different? You are what your traditions lead you to be, whether that be your voting choices, or in fact where you go on holiday, which paper you buy,.. what beer you drink, whethyer you live on a farm, or a tower block.

Sad though, isn't it? Too many people fall in to voting for the same party without listening to the real policies.

GT49er · Apr 26, 2017

vegster said:
Sad though, isn't it? Too many people fall in to voting for the same party without listening to the real policies.

It's always been the way, though. Changing governments after an election is a result of a comparatively tiny number of voters who actually do change the party they vote for from time to time.
Much of the time a pig with a blue rosette on (or a red one, I'm not taking sides in this) would get almost as many votes as their human counterpart would.

Weststander · Apr 26, 2017

mikeyjh said:
Of course it's a little more nuanced than I am making out - If I can be slightly less binary, I don't believe that people are motivated to vote Tory by the betterment of the greater good, they are motivated to vote tory by an apparent opportunity to improve their own situation. That's the selfish bit. Then there's those who DO believe that the Tories are there for the greater good and that even the least well off benefit under their leadership, perhaps instead of stupid I can describe them as misguided. I certainly don't think they are correct.

Patronising the many millions (non Tory) who also voted Brexit. They seek a Briton free of control by unelected officials and judges in Brussels and at the ECJ, on an unelected road map to a European super state, rather than the purely Economic Community set out in the early 1970's. The majority of voters want anyone other than Corbyn/Abbott/McDonnell as the one to deliver that.

Labour's fortunes might improve massively once Brexit is complete and once they shed their Momentum/Union biased hard left stance on everything.

deletebeepbeepbeep · Apr 26, 2017

vegster said:
My late mother voted Tory since about 1964 when she did not know who to vote for and my father said Tory.

For every national and local election after that she voted Tory. She never really listened to the competing policies, and one year she was genuinely shocked that it was a Labour government that had introduced free bus passes, free TV licences and the winter fuel allowance for pensioners... She carried on voting Tory though.

This what Labour have to contend with...

https://youtu.be/W7lsRbDKOXg

Weststander · Apr 26, 2017

Soulman said:
Predicted 44 seats for SNP, a population about the same as Yorkshire, gets to wield those votes on English issues.

That will be stopped from the next Parliament and quite rightly so. It was already in the pipeline anyway.

One Love · Apr 26, 2017

GT49er said:
I don't remember reading anywhere that people were kept silent in concentration camps. They were deprived of many thing, but as far as I know speech was not one of them. All in all I find your suggestion that I want foreign nationals put into concentration camps, as well as being totally unfounded, is rather silly.

Whereas I find your assertion that foreign nationals should be silent as rather abhorrent.

Opinions like that certain people kept to themselves. Unfortunately a negative effect of Brexit is that some feel they can now voice them.

Soulman · Apr 26, 2017

vegster said:
My late mother voted Tory since about 1964 when she did not know who to vote for and my father said Tory.

For every national and local election after that she voted Tory. She never really listened to the competing policies, and one year she was genuinely shocked that it was a Labour government that had introduced free bus passes, free TV licences and the winter fuel allowance for pensioners... She carried on voting Tory though.

I wonder what she would have made of this.
I can definitely endorse 12) having worked on them, and would like to add a 12a) to include and add on billions in PFI on schools.

1) Up to 50 thousand 'excess' deaths were recorded at hospitals during the last Labour Government. (Research by Sir Brian Jarman of Imperial College).
2) Hundreds of stealth taxes, paid by all.
3) Between 1997 to 2010 gas prices rose 133% and electricity prices rose 69%. Why would the public ever trust Labour on energy prices again?.
4) The devastating impact of Labour's raid on pensions: The tax grab has cost workers £118bn no since 1997. (Office for Budget Responsibility).
5) Labour spent £148.7 million on a National Measurements Office which forces traders to measure their goods in kilograms rather than pounds.
6) The Royal Mail is now sold because of EU Postal Directive 2008/6/EC, brought in by the last Labour government.
7) Council Tax doubled under Labour - 105% increase in England, 146% Wales. (The Chartered Institute of Public Finance & Accountancy: 26/03/09).
8) In 2012/13 Labour councils employed nearly 23,000 people on zero-hour contracts.
9) £660 million has been cut from Labour run NHS Wales over the last three years according to the Welsh TUC.
10) When Labour came to power in 1997, spending on NHS managers was less than £190m. By 2010 this had increased by 450% to over £1bn per year.
11) Labour wasted £11bn of taxpayers money on a failed IT project which was eventually scrapped by the NHS in 2013.
12) Labour lumbered the NHS with vast PFI repayments - £50 billion worth of loans which are costing £300 billion in repayments.
13) It was the Labour Party who awarded the DWP Medical Services Contract to ATOS on the 15th March 2005.
14) Labour started the privatisation of the NHS. They brought in the 2006 NHS Act that introduced competition into the NHS.
15) Labour introduced competition into the NHS: Competition Act 1998, Enterprise Act 2002 & Public Sector Procurement Regulations 2006.
16) In 2006 Gordon Brown cut the flood defence budget by £14 million.
17) Youth unemployment rose by more than 40% during Labour's 13 years in office.
18) Total stock of social housing fell under Labour - 421,000 homes were lost from the social housing stock between 1997 and 2010.
19) British manufacturing grew by 28% between 1980 and 1997. Then, under Labour, it shrank by 6%: falling from 20% of GDP to just 11%.
20) Labour left a deficit of £156 billion, PFI liability of £301 billion, EU Rebate loss £9.3 billion, Sold the Gold loss £6 billion.
21) The last Labour government spent so much money on Labour cronies that it had a 5% structural deficit at the height of the boom.
22)
The use of food banks went up tenfold under Labour. From 3,000 users in 2005/06 to over 40,000 by 2009/10. (The Trussell Trust/C4 FactCheck).
23) When Labour's Gordon Brown became Prime Minister in 2007, UK public debt was 44.1% of GDP. When he left in 2010, it was 148.1%.
24) Only 6,330 council houses were completed from 1998 to 2010 under Labour, compared with 17,710 in 1990 alone - Thatcher's final year as PM.
25) Tony Blair gave away a chunk of the UK's EU rebate estimated now to have cost the UK £9.3 billion between 2007-2013.
26) In 2010 Gordon Brown branded Rochdale voter Gillian Duffy "a bigoted woman" for daring to voice her concern about uncontrolled immigration.
27) Labour are now complaining about gambling. But they were the ones who wanted to build Super Casinos in some of the poorest areas in Britain.
28) Labour closed more mines in 5 years than Thatcher did in 11 years.. 211 mines closed under Wilson 1965-70.. 154 under Thatcher 1979-90.
29) Under Labour zero hour contracts increased by 74% between 2004 - 2009.
30) Since Labour liberalised the law in 2000 to allow postal voting on demand, the number of postal voting fraud in Labour areas has soared.
31) Labour wants to charge patients. Lord Warner said people should pay a £10-a-month fee to use NHS/£20 for every night they stay in hospital.
32) Sexed up dossiers.
33) Labour were responsible for the rise in payday lenders. Now they are campaigning against them.
34) Labour presided over the slowest growth in 50 years and produced the fastest decline in British manufacturing since manufacturing began.
35) Labour destroyed our border controls then with the help of the BBC denounced anybody who voiced concerns about mass immigration as racists.
36) Labour councils are the biggest users of zero hour contracts.
37) Under Labour between 1997 to 2010 the gap between rich and poor got wider.
38) The last Labour government doubled the rate of income tax on the lowest paid.
39) Thousands of dead Iraqi women and children.
40) Labour MPs to remember: Denis MacShane (jailed), David Chaytor (jailed), Eric Illsley (jailed), Elliot Morley (jailed), Jim Devine (jailed).
41) Blair invaded Iraq and Brown invaded the Treasury, both actions crippled us.
42) Labour opposes democracy in Britain by denying the British people a referendum on EU membership.
43) Labour Party Manifesto Pledge 2001: 'We will not introduce top-up fees'. It did.
44) One of the reasons for high energy prices is EU driven 'Green Taxes' brought in by the last Labour government.
45) It was Labour under Blair who handed control of British food regulation to the EU, (Regulation EC no 178/2002).
46) Remember when Tony Blair and Labour essentially traded guns for access to oil with Libya.
47) The Labour Party paid only £14,000 in tax in 2013, on total income of £33.3 million. (The Spectator, 30/07/
48) A systematic Anti Semitism that runs rife throughout the Party.
49) Weapons of mass distraction.
50) Rotherham 1400 plus girls known to be groomed by Muslims & covered up by the council & police & left to continue for years

cunning fergus · Apr 26, 2017

mikeyjh said:
cunning fergus said:

Obvious question, but I'll ask it anyway, as I'm missing the point, what is it?

Click to expand...

You are moaning about UKIP's policy of banning the burka.

The very same policy exists in law in a number of European countries and regions. It is a policy also being advocated in Germany by Merkel.

If you (or anyone else) is going to moan about UKIP's islamaphobic policy of banning the burka you should be clear you are denouncing a well established wider European law that has been approved as legal by the European Court of Human Rights.

By not establishing this context in your critique of a UKIP policy you appear to be bigoted against UKIP because it's UKIP, not because you actually disapprove of the policy. Bigotry is ugly in any form.

Clear enough?

vegster · Apr 26, 2017

Soulman said:
I wonder what she would have made of this.
I can definitely endorse 12) having worked on them, and would like to add a 12a) to include and add on billions in PFI on schools.

1) Up to 50 thousand 'excess' deaths were recorded at hospitals during the last Labour Government. (Research by Sir Brian Jarman of Imperial College).
2) Hundreds of stealth taxes, paid by all.
3) Between 1997 to 2010 gas prices rose 133% and electricity prices rose 69%. Why would the public ever trust Labour on energy prices again?.
4) The devastating impact of Labour's raid on pensions: The tax grab has cost workers £118bn no since 1997. (Office for Budget Responsibility).
5) Labour spent £148.7 million on a National Measurements Office which forces traders to measure their goods in kilograms rather than pounds.
6) The Royal Mail is now sold because of EU Postal Directive 2008/6/EC, brought in by the last Labour government.
7) Council Tax doubled under Labour - 105% increase in England, 146% Wales. (The Chartered Institute of Public Finance & Accountancy: 26/03/09).
8) In 2012/13 Labour councils employed nearly 23,000 people on zero-hour contracts.
9) £660 million has been cut from Labour run NHS Wales over the last three years according to the Welsh TUC.
10) When Labour came to power in 1997, spending on NHS managers was less than £190m. By 2010 this had increased by 450% to over £1bn per year.
11) Labour wasted £11bn of taxpayers money on a failed IT project which was eventually scrapped by the NHS in 2013.
12) Labour lumbered the NHS with vast PFI repayments - £50 billion worth of loans which are costing £300 billion in repayments.
13) It was the Labour Party who awarded the DWP Medical Services Contract to ATOS on the 15th March 2005.
14) Labour started the privatisation of the NHS. They brought in the 2006 NHS Act that introduced competition into the NHS.
15) Labour introduced competition into the NHS: Competition Act 1998, Enterprise Act 2002 & Public Sector Procurement Regulations 2006.
16) In 2006 Gordon Brown cut the flood defence budget by £14 million.
17) Youth unemployment rose by more than 40% during Labour's 13 years in office.
18) Total stock of social housing fell under Labour - 421,000 homes were lost from the social housing stock between 1997 and 2010.
19) British manufacturing grew by 28% between 1980 and 1997. Then, under Labour, it shrank by 6%: falling from 20% of GDP to just 11%.
20) Labour left a deficit of £156 billion, PFI liability of £301 billion, EU Rebate loss £9.3 billion, Sold the Gold loss £6 billion.
21) The last Labour government spent so much money on Labour cronies that it had a 5% structural deficit at the height of the boom.
22)
The use of food banks went up tenfold under Labour. From 3,000 users in 2005/06 to over 40,000 by 2009/10. (The Trussell Trust/C4 FactCheck).
23) When Labour's Gordon Brown became Prime Minister in 2007, UK public debt was 44.1% of GDP. When he left in 2010, it was 148.1%.
24) Only 6,330 council houses were completed from 1998 to 2010 under Labour, compared with 17,710 in 1990 alone - Thatcher's final year as PM.
25) Tony Blair gave away a chunk of the UK's EU rebate estimated now to have cost the UK £9.3 billion between 2007-2013.
26) In 2010 Gordon Brown branded Rochdale voter Gillian Duffy "a bigoted woman" for daring to voice her concern about uncontrolled immigration.
27) Labour are now complaining about gambling. But they were the ones who wanted to build Super Casinos in some of the poorest areas in Britain.
28) Labour closed more mines in 5 years than Thatcher did in 11 years.. 211 mines closed under Wilson 1965-70.. 154 under Thatcher 1979-90.
29) Under Labour zero hour contracts increased by 74% between 2004 - 2009.
30) Since Labour liberalised the law in 2000 to allow postal voting on demand, the number of postal voting fraud in Labour areas has soared.
31) Labour wants to charge patients. Lord Warner said people should pay a £10-a-month fee to use NHS/£20 for every night they stay in hospital.
32) Sexed up dossiers.
33) Labour were responsible for the rise in payday lenders. Now they are campaigning against them.
34) Labour presided over the slowest growth in 50 years and produced the fastest decline in British manufacturing since manufacturing began.
35) Labour destroyed our border controls then with the help of the BBC denounced anybody who voiced concerns about mass immigration as racists.
36) Labour councils are the biggest users of zero hour contracts.
37) Under Labour between 1997 to 2010 the gap between rich and poor got wider.
38) The last Labour government doubled the rate of income tax on the lowest paid.
39) Thousands of dead Iraqi women and children.
40) Labour MPs to remember: Denis MacShane (jailed), David Chaytor (jailed), Eric Illsley (jailed), Elliot Morley (jailed), Jim Devine (jailed).
41) Blair invaded Iraq and Brown invaded the Treasury, both actions crippled us.
42) Labour opposes democracy in Britain by denying the British people a referendum on EU membership.
43) Labour Party Manifesto Pledge 2001: 'We will not introduce top-up fees'. It did.
44) One of the reasons for high energy prices is EU driven 'Green Taxes' brought in by the last Labour government.
45) It was Labour under Blair who handed control of British food regulation to the EU, (Regulation EC no 178/2002).
46) Remember when Tony Blair and Labour essentially traded guns for access to oil with Libya.
47) The Labour Party paid only £14,000 in tax in 2013, on total income of £33.3 million. (The Spectator, 30/07/
48) A systematic Anti Semitism that runs rife throughout the Party.
49) Weapons of mass distraction.
50) Rotherham 1400 plus girls known to be groomed by Muslims & covered up by the council & police & left to continue for years

Plenty of holes shot through that list, too many to take one by one as life is too short, however number 49 is a particularly funny one ! As for no. 40 you have obviously forgotten Jeffrey Archer and Jonathon Aitken among Tory MP's. I might as well give up and vote for the one party ( One Person ) State now then, All hail St Theresa who has and will carry on delivering us to the promised land !

GT49er · Apr 26, 2017

One Love said:
Whereas I find your assertion that foreign nationals should be silent as rather abhorrent.

Opinions like that certain people kept to themselves. Unfortunately a negative effect of Brexit is that some feel they can now voice them.

OMG! Whoosh, whoosh and double whoosh!
:lol:

Did you not see what I was replying to, or is your spelling just not very good?

Soulman · Apr 26, 2017

vegster said:
Plenty of holes shot through that list, too many to take one by one as life is too short, however number 49 is a particularly funny one ! As for no. 40 you have obviously forgotten Jeffrey Archer and Jonathon Aitken among Tory MP's. I might as well give up and vote for the one party ( One Person ) State now then, All hail St Theresa who has and will carry on delivering us to the promised land !

I have not forgotten the Tory MP's you mentioned, although they would look out of place on the list of Labour naughties.
Number 40 is good eh :smile:

I daresay there will be a few that pick plenty of holes in the list.....give them something to do whist at work staring at their PC.

studio150 · Apr 26, 2017

GT49er said:
OMG! Whoosh, whoosh and double whoosh!

Did you not see what I was replying to, or is your spelling just not very good?

He is obviously aloud to make mistakes :clap:

beorhthelm · Apr 26, 2017

vegster said:
Plenty of holes shot through that list,

there are a lot of thing on that list that are trivial, not really Labour's fault or repeated. there are however a number of items on that list that were apparently of no concern before 2010 to Labour and their supporters, who now bang on drums that they did nothing about or instigated during their innings. student fees, the pensions raid, PFI arrangements, moves to privatisation of NHS and DWP services, housing shortfall in both social and private, zero hours contracts, energy levies are notable.

vegster · Apr 26, 2017

beorhthelm said:
there are a lot of thing on that list that are trivial, not really Labour's fault or repeated. there are however a number of items on that list that were apparently of no concern before 2010 to Labour and their supporters, who now bang on drums that they did nothing about or instigated during their innings. student fees, the pensions raid, PFI arrangements, moves to privatisation of NHS and DWP services, housing shortfall in both social and private, zero hours contracts, energy levies are notable.

Strange that no shit seems to stick to the Tories...

Weststander · Apr 26, 2017

The nurse who was wheeled out across TV programmes mentioned that the government could free billions if PFI's were abandoned.

The NHS PFI''s, which have cost and are still costing £ billions in excess of the infrastucture and maintenance provided to the NHS, were signed under Labour's watch. Unfortunately, they are cast iron legal contracts and NHS trusts are stuck with them for many years to come.

What a colossal blunder, but it barely gets a mention.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/pfi-deals-will-cost-taxpayers-209bn-over-next-35-years-a6966986.html

The loss dwarfs the amounts bickered about on CT rises, nursing bursaries, you name it.

beorhthelm · Apr 26, 2017

vegster said:
Strange that no shit seems to stick to the Tories...

lol, theres plenty of shit that get thrown and sticks. why not address the point rathert than attempt to deflect. for instance, why did Labour do nothing, not even raise as an issue, the now derided zero hours contracts? Labour councils and unions even use them, Guardian freelancers frequently write about how appalling they are, while no credit ever given to the Coalition for outlawing exclusitivy and some other egregious clauses.

GT49er · Apr 26, 2017

studio150 said:
He is obviously aloud to make mistakes

Oh no he bloody well isn't!

deletebeepbeepbeep · Apr 26, 2017

https://mobile.twitter.com/britainelects/status/857345253568851973

First time I've seen a '-' in the difference column against the tories for a poll in a long time.

Buzzer · Apr 26, 2017

The Lib Dems won't be contesting Brighton Pavilion. It won't affect the constituency results all that much seeing as the Lib Dems are so poorly supported in Brighton but nonetheless it's good news for those hoping for Caroline Lucas to get re-elected. To be honest, her reputation is such that I would be astonished if she lost the seat.

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