[News] "Protestors" at Alder Hey

edna krabappel · Apr 25, 2018

Can't even imagine how awful it must be to be the judge having to make a ruling in cases like this.

It's also sad to hear the hospital medical staff being slated for their actions, in some cases being accused of deliberately letting a child die. These guys work in paediatrics for a reason: because they're passionate about caring for sick children. If it wasn't for what they'd done over the past fifteen months or so, Alfie Evans would have been long gone.

I can't bear all the ill informed bandwagon jumpers who've piled in. It's incredibly undignified.

studio150 · Apr 25, 2018

Unfortunately the parents have been listening to religious idiots from America who are basically hijacking the child in an attempt to impose their beliefs onto others. This has extended further tonight with the parents now bringing a private prosecution against the hospital medical team for conspiracy to murder, which is farcical and bound to fail.

While no one wants to be in the position of the parents with a terminally ill child, they are blinkered by their beliefs.

Bevendean Hillbilly · Apr 26, 2018

This whole thing should be between the Medics and Alfie's parents.

There is no need for some religious zealots, lawyers, hoooman rights "activists" and morons to stick their oars in.

Our society is going mad.

Westdene Seagull · Apr 26, 2018

Wrong-Direction said:
Parents should be sent down for child abuse

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Wrong-Direction said:
Well it is though isn't it? Why would you willingly put a child through pain when experts are telling you there's no hope

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You really are a fvcking idiot devoid of any humanity or empathy. We can only hope you never have children of your own.

el punal · Apr 26, 2018

Bevendean Hillbilly said:
This whole thing should be between the Medics and Alfie's parents.

There is no need for some religious zealots, lawyers, hoooman rights "activists" and morons to stick their oars in.

Our society is going mad.

Fortunately our society hasn’t gone mad. It’s the people who believe and act on what these despicable exploiters tell them that are.

jackanada · Apr 26, 2018

Amazed this case is still going on. I remember a previous hearing months ago, that appeal based on the idea that there was viable treatment for Alfie in the US (experimental, incredibly expensive treatment obviously). Turned out the US doctor who had been crowing about this in the media had never even read Alfie's notes, even though the medical team here had repeatedly offered to send them to him after he started sticking his beak in.

Bevendean Hillbilly · Apr 26, 2018

Tom Evans had just spoken outside the Hospital and, whilst he sounds articulate and reasonable..."Alfie is day three post extubation and is still making respiratory effort on his own, any other child would be out of ITU and on a ward" etc. Etc.

The issue now is that he is still saying that Alfie has been misdiagnosed and will recover if allowed to leave.

I don't think that is the right assessment. If, now, Alder Hey relinquish care they are admitting liability for a "misdiagnosis" which leaves them wide open to a malpractice claim and sets a terrible precedent when this situation inevitably happens again.

They have to keep Alfie in hospital now, whatever the president of Poland, the pope or pro lifers say.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Apr 26, 2018

Hugo Rune said:
Agreed but I can understand why the parents have lost a sense of reality; the emotion of trying to do what you think is best for your child is overwhelming. The mob outside the hospital can't be forgiven though.

Agreed but it is disgraceful how the media are trailing along, interviewing the father repeatedly. Chris Morris satirised this in Jam where the parents (of an abducted chld on this occasion) burst into song about their hearts' desire in front of the TV cameras. It is all disgraceful, and barely defensible as a 'public interest' issue.

Ludensian Gull · Apr 26, 2018

Wrong-Direction said:
Parents should be sent down for child abuse

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Do us all a favour, and take a long break from this board .

Goldstone1976 · Apr 26, 2018

I know one of the lawyers involved in this sad, sad situation. As some posters have hinted, only ~20% of the known facts have been made widely public.

Imo, the hospital management and staff have shown truly remarkable professionalism, restraint, and dignity in what, for them, given the circumstances, is a 100% lose/lose scenario.

I wish Alfie, his family, and the hospital staff all the very best, and earnestly hope (probably in vain) that all settles down again for everyone following the near inevitability of what is to come.

banjo · Apr 26, 2018

Wrong-Direction said:
Parents should be sent down for child abuse

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Sometimes is best to count to ten before posting. My kids are 20 and 18. You never stop worrying about them.

daveinprague · Apr 26, 2018

banjo said:
Sometimes is best to count to ten before posting. My kids are 20 and 18. You never stop worrying about them.

I still grab my daughters arm when crossing roads. She is 32 :lol:

Westdene Seagull · Apr 26, 2018

Bevendean Hillbilly said:
Tom Evans had just spoken outside the Hospital and, whilst he sounds articulate and reasonable..."Alfie is day three post extubation and is still making respiratory effort on his own, any other child would be out of ITU and on a ward" etc. Etc.

The issue now is that he is still saying that Alfie has been misdiagnosed and will recover if allowed to leave.

I don't think that is the right assessment. If, now, Alder Hey relinquish care they are admitting liability for a "misdiagnosis" which leaves them wide open to a malpractice claim and sets a terrible precedent when this situation inevitably happens again.

They have to keep Alfie in hospital now, whatever the president of Poland, the pope or pro lifers say.

But what if it is the right assessment ? You're suggesting Alder Hay do not relinquish care regardless just to avoid a law suit ?

There are going to be no winning parties in this awful and sad event. I'm also not sure where I stand on it all. I'm uncomfortable that a judge can effectively rule if a child lives or dies but I'm equally uncomfortable about religious organisations giving the parents what appears to be false hope. If I had to make a decision I think I'd let poor Alfie go for the palliative care in Italy - away from the press and the protesters - I've not seen any argument against this yet but thankfully it's not my decision.

Baker lite · Apr 26, 2018

Scousers.
The shit on the sole of Britain’s shoe.

happypig · Apr 26, 2018

A balanced view from across the pond....
[tweet]989192073034260481[/tweet]

Not sure how an assault rifle helps either party here

JamesAndTheGiantHead · Apr 26, 2018

Presumably these protestors are the sorts of people that declare a ‘miracle’ whenever a child is saved by modern medicine, and that God is simply working via the doctors.

In situations like this, however, the courts and doctors are ‘playing God’ and acting against his will.

Can He not multitask?

Kalimantan Gull · Apr 26, 2018

Its an awful situation for the parents and the medical team are surely right - he can't recover and he is getting the best care possible for him.

BUT, I really don't like the idea that a court can decide that a parent can't try and seek care wherever they want, especially if the alternative is just switching his machine off. Plenty of people go and pay for treatment in other countries for various things, and to have that avenue denied them seems unfair. More than anything, allowing Alfie to go to Italy would just free the hospital and the courts and the family from this seemingly-neverending saga. It feels like the only way out of this sad situation, or this issue will just go on and on and on, beyond the life of Alfie. It also feels like the only way not to totally ruin these poor parents lives forever.

Bevendean Hillbilly · Apr 26, 2018

Westdene Seagull said:
But what if it is the right assessment ? You're suggesting Alder Hay do not relinquish care regardless just to avoid a law suit ?

There are going to be no winning parties in this awful and sad event. I'm also not sure where I stand on it all. I'm uncomfortable that a judge can effectively rule if a child lives or dies but I'm equally uncomfortable about religious organisations giving the parents what appears to be false hope. If I had to make a decision I think I'd let poor Alfie go for the palliative care in Italy - away from the press and the protesters - I've not seen any argument against this yet but thankfully it's not my decision.

What Alder Hey are arguing is more complex I think.

What they seem to be saying is that Alfie's parents are not competent to make decisions on Alfie's medical care and, as far as I can see, every court in the UK and Europe agree with them.

If they then say, well, we were wrong, it's fine to discharge him so they can hawk him around the world for some unspecified purpose other than prayer and tube feeding it sets a horrific precedent.

When a parent consents to medical care they are, effectively, agreeing to trust the medical profession to provide them with the best possible advice and care.
No-one disagrees with the diagnosis or...and this is important...the prognosis. Not the Italians, not the Germans, Not the Americans.
Are we saying that Medical science should have its opinion ignored in favour of The Popes medical opinion, or the president of Poland...are they really the competent authorities that Alfie needs?

I say that he should not suffer. He should be supported with O2 and nutrition/hydration and kept completely peaceful and loved. F he becomes distressed or shows some deterioration he should be treated palliatively. That seems to be the Hospitals plan and seems fine.
If he is cured and his brain becomes viable...then Prayer wins and all is well. I'm not holding my breath though.

I cannot imagine the hell that his parents are in..I really wish them well, little Alfie's life is effectively, being used as a quasi religious/scientific football and it has to stop.

Bevendean Hillbilly · Apr 26, 2018

Baker lite said:
Scousers.
The shit on the sole of Britain’s shoe.

Alfie and his parents are scousers...do you mean them in this sweeping statement?

Just because some religiously motivated knobheads behave like total plums I imagine that the overall population of Liverpool is just as divided on this as the rest of us.

If Alfie was in the Royal Sussex there would be a similar bunch of goons standing on Eastern Road abusing nurses as murderers and issuing death threats to the paediatricians.

Gazwag · Apr 26, 2018

Westdene Seagull said:
But what if it is the right assessment ? You're suggesting Alder Hay do not relinquish care regardless just to avoid a law suit ?

There are going to be no winning parties in this awful and sad event. I'm also not sure where I stand on it all. I'm uncomfortable that a judge can effectively rule if a child lives or dies but I'm equally uncomfortable about religious organisations giving the parents what appears to be false hope. If I had to make a decision I think I'd let poor Alfie go for the palliative care in Italy - away from the press and the protesters - I've not seen any argument against this yet but thankfully it's not my decision.

There are winners, lawyers must making a fortune

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