[Politics] Brexit

WATFORD zero · Mar 22, 2018

Two Professors said:
Excellent news.Taxpayers saved £120 million pounds compared to the other bids and 70 new jobs at Gemalto Fareham.Marvellous scenes,as the losers would say!Hope the eurodingbats stay awake long enough to sign off the transition deal,then Independence Day beckons.

As soon as the minor issues of the NI border and Gibraltar are resolved the 21 month extension to membership, on worse terms than present, can be signed and the rejoicing can begin.

And with that first successful piece of negotiation, nearly 2 years after the vote, we will have the EU right where we want them :facepalm:

And I would have thought that Boris must be close to announcing some trade deals, nearly 2 years on

JC Footy Genius · Mar 22, 2018

Two Professors said:
Excellent news.Taxpayers saved £120 million pounds compared to the other bids and 70 new jobs at Gemalto Fareham.Marvellous scenes,as the losers would say!Hope the eurodingbats stay awake long enough to sign off the transition deal,then Independence Day beckons.

Nearly at the one-year countdown point ... marvellous scenes indeed! :banana:

WATFORD zero · Mar 22, 2018

JC Footy Genius said:
Nearly at the one-year countdown point ... marvellous scenes indeed!

Nearly 2 years on, we are nearly at the one year countdown to the first 21 month extension. Marvellous scenes indeed :lolol:

Still, 5 years after the vote, you may have a slightly better idea of what it was you voted for

Westdene Seagull · Mar 22, 2018

ManOfSussex said:
Yes, the tender was, The French actually having a fully functioning Ministere de l'Interieur and not having to put things out to tender, unlike the omnishambles of our Home Office as always is not. We've established that now.

I'm no fan of the Home Office ( or the civil service in general ) having been involved in bids with the Home Office and the MOD in the past. Often they don't know what they actually want and regularly change their minds and then wonder why timescales and costs on a contract go up. BUT in house doesn't necessarily mean better or cheaper.

JC Footy Genius · Mar 22, 2018

ManOfSussex said:
What added cost would there be if The Home Office administered and processed passport applications themselves as the Ministere de l'Interieur do in France? How much does it cost in France in comparison to this deal then if this is a good one for the British tax payer?

This is about the cost of making the new passports not administering and processing them. You were suggesting the French do this 'in-house'..

I assume The French Government do their passports in-house, which The Home Office could do as well if it functioned properly, therefore they don't put them out to tender to be done by the best bidders, foreign or otherwise.

You also implied this was a better option without it seems knowing any cost implications.

Two Professors · Mar 22, 2018

WATFORD zero said:
As soon as the minor issues of the NI border and Gibraltar are resolved the 21 month extension to membership, on worse terms than present, can be signed and the rejoicing can begin.

And with that first successful piece of negotiation, nearly 2 years after the vote, we will have the EU right where we want them

And I would have thought that Boris must be close to announcing some trade deals, nearly 2 years on

You must realise that he cannot announce trade deals until the transition period starts.Then we can start saving money big time by getting rid of MEP's and putting any of the civil servants freed up on to useful work,like trade deals,instead of euro claptrap!

ManOfSussex · Mar 22, 2018

JC Footy Genius said:
This is about the cost of making the new passports not administering and processing them. You were suggesting the French do this 'in-house'.

Does the French Ministere de l'Interieur not do this then?

JC Footy Genius said:
You also implied this was a better option without it seems knowing any cost implications.

I don't know the cost implications - that's why I was asking you as you said it was a good deal for the British tax payer. Was it?

JC Footy Genius · Mar 22, 2018

WATFORD zero said:
Nearly 2 years on, we are nearly at the one year countdown to the first 21 month extension. Marvellous scenes indeed

Still, 5 years after the vote, you may have a slightly better idea of what it was you voted for

Only a 21-month transition/implementation period with a fixed end date untangling 55 years of integration ...a remarkable success story.

ManOfSussex · Mar 22, 2018

Westdene Seagull said:
I'm no fan of the Home Office ( or the civil service in general ) having been involved in bids with the Home Office and the MOD in the past. Often they don't know what they actually want and regularly change their minds and then wonder why timescales and costs on a contract go up. BUT in house doesn't necessarily mean better or cheaper.

Settled Status is going to be a giant cluster**** by all accounts.

I've said this before on this thread, but I still remember my ex-girlfriends Worker Registration Scheme application back in 2005 - A colour photocopied piece of A4 paper sent from a Home Office processing centre in Sheffield for the cost of £50, which they didn't even manage to take as they never cashed the cheque I wrote for her. Luckily her passport was received back despite not being sent recorded delivery as it was supposed to be.

JC Footy Genius · Mar 22, 2018

ManOfSussex said:
Does the French Ministere de l'Interieur not do this then?

I don't know the cost implications - that's why I was asking you as you said it was a good deal for the British tax payer. Was it?

No idea, you suggested they did, were you making stuff up? You also suggested it was better than putting it out to tender. If you don't know the cost implications why did you think the French way was better?

nicko31 · Mar 22, 2018

JC Footy Genius said:
Only a 21-month transition/implementation period with a fixed end date untangling 55 years of integration ...a remarkable success story.

Remarkable success story, are you basing this on the 21 months of remarkable success since the vote?

The really big issues are a long way from being resolved, but passports and fish are nice trivial distractions for now

ManOfSussex · Mar 22, 2018

JC Footy Genius said:
No idea, you suggested they did, were you making stuff up? You also suggested it was better than putting it out to tender. If you don't know the cost implications why did you think the French way was better?

De La Rue stated this morning they're not able to bid for the equivalent contract with France. It's been pointed out that this British Government contract has gone to a French company because it's been put out to tender to the best bidder as per EU regulations. That would seem to suggest the Ministere de l'Interieur don't put it out to tender, which was touched on in the twitter explanation on this thread and that French passports are made 'in-house' ie by a body of the Ministere de l'Interieur, perhaps in the way as DBS checks are done here as NDPB of The Home Office.

You're stating it's a good deal for the British tax payer, not me, thus I asked you why it was. I didn't mention cost implications to this, merely the fact it's being done abroad to the disappointment of a British company and advocates for the joys of blue passports such as Ms Patel et al.

JC Footy Genius · Mar 22, 2018

nicko31 said:
Remarkable success story, are you basing this on the 21 months of remarkable success since the vote?

The really big issues are a long way from being resolved, but passports and fish are nice trivial distractions for now

From Triggering article 50, negotiating our exit, the transition/implementation period and a future trade arrangement in a relatively short period was always a big ask and many people said it couldn't be done (and still do). Not there yet but the negotiations are on schedule.

JC Footy Genius · Mar 22, 2018

ManOfSussex said:
De La Rue stated this morning they're not able to bid for the equivalent contract with France. It's been pointed out that this British Government contract has gone to a French company because it's been put out to tender to the best bidder as per EU regulations. That would seem to suggest the Ministere de l'Interieur don't put it out to tender, which was touched on in the twitter explanation on this thread and that French passports are made 'in-house' ie by a body of the Ministere de l'Interieur, perhaps in the way as DBS checks are done here as NDPB of The Home Office.

You're stating it's a good deal for the British tax payer, not me, thus I asked you why it was. I didn't mention cost implications to this, merely the fact it's being done abroad to the disappointment of a British company and advocates for the joys of blue passports such as Ms Patel et al.

So no one on this thread actually knows how the French avoid EU regulations but the assumption is they make passports 'in-house''. I'm not sure how administering DBS checks is comparable to a hundreds of million pound manufacturing contract.

You suggested the French 'in-house' way was better I was wondering how you reached that assessment. :shrug:

I based my view on your assumption that the French make them in-house. The Home Office would have to set up the manufacturing capability, employ and train the staff all from scratch. I doubt that would be as cost-effective as a competitive tendering process involving many companies with the relevant expertise and capability. Knowing your opinion of the Home Office I think you might agree.

beorhthelm · Mar 22, 2018

ManOfSussex said:
De La Rue stated this morning they're not able to bid for the equivalent contract with France. It's been pointed out that this British Government contract has gone to a French company because it's been put out to tender to the best bidder as per EU regulations. That would seem to suggest the Ministere de l'Interieur don't put it out to tender, which was touched on in the twitter explanation on this thread and that French passports are made 'in-house' ie by a body of the Ministere de l'Interieur, perhaps in the way as DBS checks are done here as NDPB of The Home Office.

have to love the irony of that - we put out a tender for our post EU passport using EU rules. i think therein lies much of the reason for this mess, because we follow the rules even when its not in our national advantage, while others... not so much, finding ways round or having a facade of compliance. c'est la vie.

ManOfSussex · Mar 22, 2018

JC Footy Genius said:
So no one on this thread actually knows how the French avoid EU regulations but the assumption is they make passports 'in-house''. I'm not sure how administering DBS checks is comparable to a hundreds of million pound manufacturing contract.

You suggested the French 'in-house' way was better I was wondering how you reached that assessment.

I based my view on your assumption that the French make them in-house. The Home Office would have to set up the manufacturing capability, employ and train the staff all from scratch. I doubt that would be as cost-effective as a competitive tendering process involving many companies with the relevant expertise and capability. Knowing your opinion of the Home Office I think you might agree.

I was suggesting that the Ministere de l'Interieur itself in France is better than The Home Office, which isn't exactly difficult, not that the production of France's passport system is better. I suspect Ms Patel et al might prefer the French in-house way though. DBS is a merely an example that some Home Office functions are actually covered ultimately by themselves and their staff rather than putting everything out to tender.

Herr Tubthumper · Mar 22, 2018

nicko31 said:
Remarkable success story, are you basing this on the 21 months of remarkable success since the vote?

The really big issues are a long way from being resolved, but passports and fish are nice trivial distractions for now

And the blue passport is the ultimate symbol of backward looking Britain.

Titanic · Mar 22, 2018

Herr Tubthumper said:
And the blue passport is the ultimate symbol of backward looking Britain.

It's only a colour. Why does it upset you so much?

A1X · Mar 22, 2018

I'd have no problem with a blue passport provided it still gave me unrestricted access to 27 other European nations.

The Clamp · Mar 22, 2018

pastafarian said:
You really are an argumentative troll who has real difficulties remembering what stance you are arguing for or against, one minute voting leave has harmed the fishing industry, previously though voting leave was good news for the fishing industry and was always going to be a big boost for it

because UK fishermen had suffered needlessly and very unfairly under the EU.

Transparent Clown

I know! Daft aren't I. And I was allowed to vote on the referendum.

Oh.

Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊

[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

Remain

Leave

Wouldn’t vote

Well-known member

Bringer of TRUTH

Well-known member

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch

Bringer of TRUTH

Two Mad Professors

We wunt be druv

Bringer of TRUTH

We wunt be druv

Bringer of TRUTH

Well-known member

We wunt be druv

Bringer of TRUTH

Bringer of TRUTH

A. Virgo, Football Genius

We wunt be druv

Well-known member

Super Moderator

Well-known member

Well-known member

Share this page