[Politics] Brexit

vegster · Dec 11, 2017

Titanic said:
Had she formed a strong and stable government yet?

Like ours ? I just heard the news on the radio and there was a " Explanation " of the deal on Ireland from Mrs May, it was so sad hearing her explain to the House the non-deal she had allegedly negotiated amid laughter from |MP's.

Titanic · Dec 11, 2017

vegster said:
Like ours ? I just heard the news on the radio and there was a " Explanation " of the deal on Ireland from Mrs May, it was so sad hearing her explain to the House the non-deal she had allegedly negotiated amid laughter from |MP's.

Still, a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest.

JC Footy Genius · Dec 11, 2017

Strong and Stable Government

Widely praised by Ireland and the EU, Unionists and Corbyn's bestie Gerry Adams content, Soubry, Morgan, Clarke content, Cabinet Brexiteers content ...it appears only Farage, Corbyn and the ususal suspects on here aren't happy. :facepalm:

WATFORD zero · Dec 11, 2017

Titanic said:
Still, a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest.

I assume you're disregarding the fact that we will have no borders and have to maintain alignment with all the EU legislation which we no longer have any input to?

Anyway, onwards and upwards

Titanic · Dec 11, 2017

WATFORD zero said:
I assume you're disregarding the fact that we will have no borders and have to maintain alignment with all the EU legislation which we no longer have any input to?

Anyway, onwards and upwards

We are already aligned with it. How frequently do you think the myriad states of the Union manage to agree about making any significant change to the legislation?

Buzzer · Dec 11, 2017

Lincoln Imp said:
You voted because of something that was said by an opposition politician in Germany 18 months after the date of the vote?

vegster said:
How prescient of you.

It's not prescience. It's that I can see that nothing will stop the push for a federal Europe. It's inexorable. We've known for a long time that the politicians and bureaucrats at the very top are not interested in reforming the EU in any way, shape or form unless it's towards a goal of a United States of Europe.

Perhaps I didn't make my point very well in my first post. I voted Brexit purely in the belief that having ultimate rule of law and government returned to the UK is far more democratic because we get to choose who makes the laws and the laws that are made are done so with the UK in mind rather than a one-size fits all imposed on 28 different countries all with disparate cultures and economies. There are lots of people who voted Brexit for the same reason as me but I'm really not sure that some Remainers accept that explanation even now and instead think we exaggerate the threat of a federal Europe to hide the closet-racism which must be the real reason.

WATFORD zero · Dec 11, 2017

Titanic said:
We are already aligned with it. How frequently do you think the myriad states of the Union manage to agree about making any significant change to the legislation?

You know as well as I do, how much EU legislation there is per year. Just looked - Nowadays, the EU approves on average 80 directives, 1200 regulations and 700 decisions per year.

Let's face it, there isn't a lot left to discuss. No borders, Do what the EU tell us and we can now all get excited about the details of a trade deal.

It's done and dusted, there's only the trade details left. (And I could hazard a fair guess how they'll go! )
[MENTION=5200]Buzzer[/MENTION] - I understand why you voted the way you did but TM gave that away on Friday in order to get onto Trade negoatiations

And Finally

[MENTION=33253]JC Footy Genius[/MENTION] - I know you think TM has done a marvellous job (and I'm not sure what choice she had) but did you really want no borders and being subservient to EU law ?

I'm off out to dinner - be careful out there

Pretty pink fairy · Dec 11, 2017

vegster said:
How prescient of you. However, this was discussed last week on this thread. The fact is that this was Martin Shulz's idea floated at his party conference. As you will be well aware , at party conferences all sorts of ideas are put forward and discussed, most of which never become a party policy let alone a government one.

If you really want something to worry about look to Poland and the erosion of democratic free speech and the independent judiciary.

what a load of bollocks ! nicely swept under the carpet well done.
regards
DR

Pretty pink fairy · Dec 11, 2017

WATFORD zero said:
You know as well as I do, how much EU legislation there is per year.

Let's face it, there isn't a lot left to discuss. No borders, Do what the EU tell us and we can now all get excited about the details of a trade deal.

It's done and dusted, there's only the trade details left. (And I could hazard a fair guess how they'll go! )

a believer in your own bullshit :lolol:

regards
DR

vegster · Dec 11, 2017

Titanic said:
Still, a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest.

Indeed, wasn't that when you were cutting a pasting those hilarious little gems from Phil Hammond's budget last month ?. :rotlf:

Buzzer · Dec 11, 2017

WATFORD zero said:
[MENTION=5200]Buzzer[/MENTION] - I understand why you voted the way you did but TM gave that away on Friday in order to get onto Trade negoatiations

Point taken but I'd still rather be in a position where any political concessions from the UK to another entity is ultimately our decision.

vegster · Dec 11, 2017

Buzzer said:
It's not prescience. It's that I can see that nothing will stop the push for a federal Europe. It's inexorable. We've known for a long time that the politicians and bureaucrats at the very top are not interested in reforming the EU in any way, shape or form unless it's towards a goal of a United States of Europe.

Perhaps I didn't make my point very well in my first post. I voted Brexit purely in the belief that having ultimate rule of law and government returned to the UK is far more democratic because we get to choose who makes the laws and the laws that are made are done so with the UK in mind rather than a one-size fits all imposed on 28 different countries all with disparate cultures and economies. There are lots of people who voted Brexit for the same reason as me but I'm really not sure that some Remainers accept that explanation even now and instead think we exaggerate the threat of a federal Europe to hide the closet-racism which must be the real reason.

It's quite ironic you feel this way when vast numbers of the population of this country feel they have been failed and abandoned by our own parliament ? As for Europe, I'm really struggling to think of anything that has been " Imposed " on me to my detriment by EU rule. I can think of far more lost benefits and opportunities handed out by my own government than by Europe. I'd love to know how you have been imposed upon.

Buzzer · Dec 11, 2017

vegster said:
It's quite ironic you feel this way when vast numbers of the population of this country feel they have been failed and abandoned by our own parliament ? .

And in a couple of years, maybe sooner, they'll get a chance to change that.

pb21 · Dec 11, 2017

Buzzer said:
Point taken but I'd still rather be in a position where any political concessions from the UK to another entity is ultimately our decision.

It has ultimately been our decision for the past 30+ years, we could have said "sod it, we don't want this" at any point. We didn't though because it was decided to not be in our interest to do so. Nevertheless it was always ultimately our decision.

Dorset Seagull · Dec 11, 2017

Buzzer said:
It's not prescience. It's that I can see that nothing will stop the push for a federal Europe. It's inexorable. We've known for a long time that the politicians and bureaucrats at the very top are not interested in reforming the EU in any way, shape or form unless it's towards a goal of a United States of Europe.

Perhaps I didn't make my point very well in my first post. I voted Brexit purely in the belief that having ultimate rule of law and government returned to the UK is far more democratic because we get to choose who makes the laws and the laws that are made are done so with the UK in mind rather than a one-size fits all imposed on 28 different countries all with disparate cultures and economies. There are lots of people who voted Brexit for the same reason as me but I'm really not sure that some Remainers accept that explanation even now and instead think we exaggerate the threat of a federal Europe to hide the closet-racism which must be the real reason.

Absolutely. I also think this was the main reason for most leavers voting as they did rather then the much hyped NHS money and immigration

Buzzer · Dec 11, 2017

pb21 said:
It has ultimately been our decision for the past 30+ years, we could have said "sod it, we don't want this" at any point. We didn't though because it was decided to not be in our interest to do so. Nevertheless it was always ultimately our decision.

Of course we had the option of leaving and I'm glad that we now have because I think Parliamentary Sovereignty is paramount. There are lots of caveats in this Guardian article and it does make a big thing of the fact that in the majority number of cases we voted in favour of EU legislation but it still shows that there are laws in place that the UK voted against or abstained from. It also shows that the UK was overwhelmingly the country most out of kilter with the rest of the EU.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/datablog/2015/nov/02/is-uk-winner-or-loser-european-council

Hampster Gull · Dec 11, 2017

Lincoln Imp said:
You voted because of something that was said by an opposition politician in Germany 18 months after the date of the vote?

Whatever Schulz's ability to give his dream wheels (I'll leave HT to comment on internal German politics) any Briton confident of his country would see a suggestion like this as an opportunity for the UK to assume the natural leadership of that whole swathe of countries - most EU members I'd hazard - opposed to a USE. Someone with little faith would want to do a runner of course.

Yes. There are a few on here who think that we should run because a few politicians want a US Of Europe. To be true to our heritage the opposite should be true, we should be fighting to keep Europe open not closed.

pb21 · Dec 11, 2017

Buzzer said:
Of course we had the option of leaving and I'm glad that we now have because I think Parliamentary Sovereignty is paramount. There are lots of caveats in this Guardian article and it does make a big thing of the fact that in the majority number of cases we voted in favour of EU legislation but it still shows that there are laws in place that the UK voted against or abstained from. It also shows that the UK was overwhelmingly the country most out of kilter with the rest of the EU.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/datablog/2015/nov/02/is-uk-winner-or-loser-european-council

But that's a different issue, i.e. not liking what we are being asked. Fair enough voting for Brexit on that basis (although I didn't mind what we were being asked). But we never HAD to agree, so I think voting for Brexit on that basis would have been flawed logic.

nicko31 · Dec 11, 2017

Lord Lawson: Margaret Thatcher would be 'deeply concerned' about the Government's handling of Brexit

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-thatcher-would-deeply-concerned-governments/

You bet she be pretty concerned Nigel, Maggie would be horrified we're planning to leave the biggest trading block in the world, an idea that she dreamt up

Why doesn't he just stay in his French Chateau, one of the biggest Brexit hypocrites of all

Pretty pink fairy · Dec 11, 2017

nicko31 said:
Lord Lawson: Margaret Thatcher would be 'deeply concerned' about the Government's handling of Brexit

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-thatcher-would-deeply-concerned-governments/

You bet she be pretty concerned Nigel, Maggie would be horrified we're planning to leave the biggest trading block in the world, an idea that she dreamt up

Why doesn't he just stay in his French Chateau, one of the biggest Brexit hypocrites of all

you mean the common agricultural policy Ted heath hoodwinked the uk into joining
regards
DR

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