Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊

[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?


  • Total voters
    1,081








Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patreon
Oct 27, 2003
20,938
The arse end of Hangleton
If we vote to stay we're part of the Union, it's the U in EU. We won't be left out of anything we don't want to be left out of.

Good swerve at not answering the question. As you clearly didn't understand it I'll simplify it for you.

The TWO options on the table that we're voting on are :

1. Leave

2. Stay but under the agreements CMD has negotiated. One of those conditions is that the UK plays no part in further political integration. This integration I'm sure you, as a good European comrade, is a prime driver of the EU ( it's an aim written into treaty ).

So how can we stay in yet stay out of further political integration without just ending up on the sidelines, the poor member of the club. Now remember, and this might be the difficult bit for you, we have NO vote to stay as we are. See, I can be as condescending as you have been on this thread !
 


5ways

Well-known member
Sep 18, 2012
2,217
HELP ME OUT.
Undecided but verging on leaving. Couple of things that involve my business.
1/ Foreign EU (Poland) workers. Will they have to go home?
I'm guessing not but what will the law be about relatives, boyfriends etc coming over
2/ Imports. I buy a lot of imported goods from the EU. Will we just but up a barrier, will imports have to go through a lengthy import control with paperwork or will nothing change.

Thanks.

Foreign workers will not have to go home. In all likelihood It's doubtful immigration will fall at all, brexit or otherwise. In terms of relatives and dependents the law will change there eventually and it may be more difficult for partners and relatives without work lined up, i.e a sponsor, to get a visa.
Imports: currently we are a member of the internal market so there is no excessive paperwork within the EU. A vote to leave is a vote to end the free movement of goods and will have to go through customs clearance. This will increase the time and cost of importing from the EU. Optimistically we are able to gain access into the internal market in exchange for paying a fee and follow EU regulation like Norway does, pessimistically the negotiations drag on - it will take at least 2 years - and we don't strike a deal in the first few months. We would fall back to the WTO model. Here if you bring in "£10,000 worth of shoes imported from Spain (or wherever else) the UK border agencies would charge £800 as import duties and also collect £2,000 as VAT on the imports." There are other models - all of which are bad for the UK economy.

) The Norway option

What is it: Britain would remain part of the European Economic Area, like Norway, with access to the single market but still have to accept certain EU rules like free movement and directives agreed in Brussels.

GDP: 3.8% lower (than if UK stayed in EU).
Annual cost per household: £2,600
Annual lost tax revenues: £20bn

2) The Canada option

What is it: Britain would sign a bilateral free trade agreement with the EU, like the one Canada has negotiated – an example cited by Boris Johnson, the London Mayor, as a possible option.

GDP: 6.2% lower (than if UK stayed in EU).
Annual cost per household: £4,300
Annual lost tax revenue: £36bn

3) The World Trade Organisation option

What is it: Britain would not sign a standalone trade deal with the EU but instead rely on tariff levels set by the World Trade Organistion.

http://www.theguardian.com/small-bu...eu-referendum-brexit-change-vat-import-duties
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-every-family-4300-a-year-treasury-forecasts/

GDP: 7.5% lower (than if UK stayed in EU).
Annual cost per household: £5,200
Annual lost tax revenue: £45bn

So things will definitely change and the cost of business will go up.
 




5ways

Well-known member
Sep 18, 2012
2,217
Good swerve at not answering the question. As you clearly didn't understand it I'll simplify it for you.

The TWO options on the table that we're voting on are :

1. Leave

2. Stay but under the agreements CMD has negotiated. One of those conditions is that the UK plays no part in further political integration. This integration I'm sure you, as a good European comrade, is a prime driver of the EU ( it's an aim written into treaty ).

So how can we stay in yet stay out of further political integration without just ending up on the sidelines, the poor member of the club. Now remember, and this might be the difficult bit for you, we have NO vote to stay as we are. See, I can be as condescending as you have been on this thread !

We have an opt out of ever closer union, and no obligation to join the Euro. It is a cake and eat it scenario Boris Johnson could appreciate.
 


Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Jul 11, 2003
59,204
The Fatherland
Good swerve at not answering the question. As you clearly didn't understand it I'll simplify it for you.

The TWO options on the table that we're voting on are :

1. Leave

2. Stay but under the agreements CMD has negotiated. One of those conditions is that the UK plays no part in further political integration. This integration I'm sure you, as a good European comrade, is a prime driver of the EU ( it's an aim written into treaty ).

So how can we stay in yet stay out of further political integration without just ending up on the sidelines, the poor member of the club. Now remember, and this might be the difficult bit for you, we have NO vote to stay as we are. See, I can be as condescending as you have been on this thread !

Cameron's words were that references to further integration do not apply to the UK. So, if something "integrated" comes up we simply don't get involved...unless we want to off course. A bit like the numerous opt-outs we currently deploy.
 


pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
1/ Foreign EU (Poland) workers. Will they have to go home?
I'm guessing not but what will the law be about relatives, boyfriends etc coming over

No they wont suddenly have to go home,its been pointed out by both sides current regulations stay in place until changed otherwise in the negotiations or a change in the law enacted by the UK gov.
There are rules and regulations already in place regarding relatives of non uk nationals(outside of EEA),these rules would simply expand to include people of Europe as well post Brexit

2/ Imports. I buy a lot of imported goods from the EU. Will we just but up a barrier, will imports have to go through a lengthy import control with paperwork or will nothing change.

Brexit negotiations will end with a trade deal being done.
Why would EU countries punish themselves and their workers by imposing lengthy controls re their trade with the UK?
 




Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Jul 11, 2003
59,204
The Fatherland
No they wont suddenly have to go home,its been pointed out by both sides current regulations stay in place until changed otherwise in the negotiations or a change in the law enacted by the UK gov.
There are rules and regulations already in place regarding relatives of non uk nationals(outside of EEA),these rules would simply expand to include people of Europe as well post Brexit



Brexit negotiations will end with a trade deal being done.
Why would EU countries punish themselves and their workers by imposing lengthy controls re their trade with the UK?

More conjecture on what might happen. If the outers can't tell you for sure stay put [MENTION=21200]I remember the good times[/MENTION].
 


Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patreon
Oct 27, 2003
20,938
The arse end of Hangleton
We have an opt out of ever closer union, and no obligation to join the Euro. It is a cake and eat it scenario Boris Johnson could appreciate.

I note you haven't answered the question though.
 


Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patreon
Oct 27, 2003
20,938
The arse end of Hangleton
Cameron's words were that references to further integration do not apply to the UK. So, if something "integrated" comes up we simply don't get involved...unless we want to off course. A bit like the numerous opt-outs we currently deploy.

And yet you've regularly said that if we vote in we should be fully in. By voting in you're actually voting for being a bit in and a bit out.
 












pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
There are other models - all of which are bad for the UK economy.

) The Norway option

What is it: Britain would remain part of the European Economic Area, like Norway, with access to the single market but still have to accept certain EU rules like free movement and directives agreed in Brussels.

GDP: 3.8% lower (than if UK stayed in EU).
Annual cost per household: £2,600
Annual lost tax revenues: £20bn

2) The Canada option

What is it: Britain would sign a bilateral free trade agreement with the EU, like the one Canada has negotiated – an example cited by Boris Johnson, the London Mayor, as a possible option.

GDP: 6.2% lower (than if UK stayed in EU).
Annual cost per household: £4,300
Annual lost tax revenue: £36bn

3) The World Trade Organisation option

What is it: Britain would not sign a standalone trade deal with the EU but instead rely on tariff levels set by the World Trade Organistion.

http://www.theguardian.com/small-bu...eu-referendum-brexit-change-vat-import-duties
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-every-family-4300-a-year-treasury-forecasts/

GDP: 7.5% lower (than if UK stayed in EU).
Annual cost per household: £5,200
Annual lost tax revenue: £45bn

So things will definitely change and the cost of business will go up.

i wonder
how many times are you going to copy and paste the same rubbish figures
and still refuse to admit or even mention the negotiations will be a BRITISH model and wont be an off the peg "one of the above"

10? 20? 30 times?
 


pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
More conjecture on what might happen. If the outers can't tell you for sure stay put [MENTION=21200]I remember the good times[/MENTION].

not conjecture at all
foreign nationals will not have to suddenly leave the country.
and you will not be sent home with your British passport from Germany
 


5ways

Well-known member
Sep 18, 2012
2,217
i wonder
how many times are you going to copy and paste the same rubbish figures
and still refuse to admit or even mention the negotiations will be a BRITISH model and wont be an off the peg "one of the above"

10? 20? 30 times?

Until they are disproved? They are figures from the Treasury not from atop a cloud on Planet Brexit. I'm still waiting for any serious figures, plans, or models from the Out campaign. There is no model, there is only Brexit and be damned. Can you share the details of the bespoke model?
 


Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patreon
Oct 27, 2003
20,938
The arse end of Hangleton
Until they are disproved? They are figures from the Treasury not from atop a cloud on Planet Brexit. I'm still waiting for any serious figures, plans, or models from the Out campaign. There is no model, there is only Brexit and be damned. Can you share the details of the bespoke model?

That's what gets negotiated in the event of a leave vote - why would 2 years ( or more depending who you believe ) of negotiations take place before the vote result was known ?
 




5ways

Well-known member
Sep 18, 2012
2,217
That's what gets negotiated in the event of a leave vote - why would 2 years ( or more depending who you believe ) of negotiations take place before the vote result was known ?

Because when you're deciding the future of the UK it's a good idea to look before you leap? What we've been told about this leap - see above - is a disaster. I really don't know what the Brexiters expect or want to happen. There is no timeline, no plan.
 


Soulman

New member
Oct 22, 2012
10,966
Sompting
Because when you're deciding the future of the UK it's a good idea to look before you leap? What we've been told about this leap - see above - is a disaster. I really don't know what the Brexiters expect or want to happen. There is no timeline, no plan.

"look before you leap"...........some of us are fed up at what we have been looking at, some of us are looking to leap before the excreta hits the fan.
 



Paying the bills

Latest Discussions

Paying the bills

Paying the bills

Paying the bills

Albion and Premier League latest from Sky Sports


Top
Link Here