GloryDays
Well-known member
Also a huge sting in the wallet, paying at least an extra 40p per litre.
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Corbyn's "flexible football ticket"
- Thread starter Lush
- Start date
Also a huge sting in the wallet, paying at least an extra 40p per litre.
BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 17,114
Business men are however very good at influencing politicians and parties. Your anaolgy doesn't stand up as they mix very well (unless you are the poor suckers gettting shafted).
Guy Fawkes
The voice of treason
- Sep 29, 2007
- 8,200
Business is the wealth creator, it helps feed and cloth people, puts a roof over their heads and food on their table. It drives up living standards in a country, and provides a lot of the tax needed to fund services and pay those working in the public sector, either through direct taxation or through employees pay and spending. - yet to many Solialists, it is used as a populist target to try to gain support with claims that they are only interested in making money off the poor and are exploiting them, etc so need to be taxed to try to make things equal again. But tax them too hard and they fail, or move to another country where they could afford to still operate, taking that wealth generation and jobs with them when they go, causing lower living standards or people falling into debt traps, trying to survive (then blame the Tories as people are force to food banks, etc)
The best way to lift standards is to have a very strong economy which lifts standards of living as they thrive and can afford to pay more
BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 17,114
A strong economy is a wonderful thing. The question is, if an economy is so strong why does it need subsidising out of tax payers money? How much should tax payers pay to enjoy this strong economy? 50bn seems like a lot to me, especially on top of austerity measures.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jul/07/corporate-welfare-a-93bn-handshake
You are going to have to explain to me how giving businesses massive handouts creates more wealth than not giving them massive handouts. Are we trusting our economy to business people who can only be successful with massive government handouts? This doesn't sound like a strong economy to me.
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Stato
Well-known member
- Dec 21, 2011
- 6,584
Trickle down economics has been pursued in Western economies for the last four decades and the gap between rich and poor has continued to grow. Despite taxes being kept low, businesses have still moved their production to other countries because the job of their directors is to maximise profits for share holders, not to ensure that any particular country has a strong economy.
The rust belt states turned to Trump and the North of England voted for Brexit because politicians have continued to put the business class's needs ahead of their's and to tell them that we all benefit from a strong economy. I think of it like we've been on a ship, but some are in the water below and have been calling to the rest of us for help. Those up on deck have loads of rope, and believe that if they keep making more rope for themselves some of it will dangle over the side. They have kept telling those below that help is on its way, but it never arrives. Now those at the bottom have got fed up with waiting and have smashed a hole in the side of the ship. As the ship sinks they are saying 'Now we've done that you can't ignore us. You'll have to help.' Actually we're all just going to join them in the water.
BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 17,114
I remember when companies were getting privatised years ago we were told that they were not sustainable and too much public money was being pumped in to keep them afloat. Seems we have no come full circle and they are still not sustainable and again we need to pump public money in to keep them going. Or is it more now to keep the board and investors in bigger and bigger profits and payouts.
Maybe it is not the model that is at fault it is more the people who operate it? Capitalism, Neo-conservatism, Socialism...... Take your pick, it is all the same if the people running the show are only interested in feathering their own nest.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,310
and so have living standards, net gain for everyone.
Stato
Well-known member
- Dec 21, 2011
- 6,584
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,310
ah, so you're going to take a couple years data to rule out a decades of trend. its quite disppointing how much of our lives improvements, brought about by economic and technological change are casually overlooked.
Stato
Well-known member
- Dec 21, 2011
- 6,584
Not overlooked, just no causal link made. You have associated the continued improvements with the economic system pursued for the last 40 years. The benefits from improvements in health, technology, communications and medicine pre-date trickle down economics by decades if not centuries.
Agreed. I honestly couldn't care about the gap between the rich and the poor. It means nothing. I have a good job and earn good money but compared to Bill Gates I'm poor. Income inequality is one of the most ridiculous terms I've ever heard of.
BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 17,114
I disagree, I think that this kind of disparity is a problem.
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2...-workers-will-earn-all-year-fat-cat-wednesday
Is one person really worth so much more than another?
Yes, they are. What Bill Gates has done to change to world, create employment etc. Plus the levels of his philanthropy. I'd say he is worth every penny of his wealth. Income inequality really doesn't matter.
Tell me why it matters? Every country in the world has it. Your solution is to steal the wealth of people that make a lot of money?
Guy Fawkes
The voice of treason
- Sep 29, 2007
- 8,200
What Bill Gates has done is to provide a product that no one was ever forced to buy, he has employed a large number of workers directly and indirectly, through supplier chains and retailers, plus open up business that can take place online so how much has he contributed to all of those individuals personal earnings that wouldn't have existed had he not been innovative and created his products?
Consumers have decided to use a part of their earnings beyond the minimum amount needed to survive (roof over their head and a bed to sleep in, food and drink to consume and survive and heating in cold climates,etc) to buy his products, which they are entitled to do and spend how they wish, (some invest in trying to make more money, others may spend it hobbies or buy living to a higher standard by buying more luxurious food, drink and other household items that they really need on a basic level (pcs, games consoles, tvs, internet, dish washers, etc)
People get a free education until University, and then don't have to pay upfront for this level, and they have the chance to move and pursue better paid employment, even if it means moving abroad, they have a lot of means to improve their own situation but most people are lazy and think it should be handed to them rather than taking personal responsibility for themselves
Those moaning about wealthier people like Bill Gates, what exactly are you doing to make yourself better off rather than demanding that it handed to you on a plate from those who are better off than you??
Tom Hark Preston Park
Will Post For Cash
- Jul 6, 2003
- 70,187
This. A cheap throwaway gesture aimed at scooping up a few football fan votes. A bit pathetic really.
Guy Fawkes
The voice of treason
- Sep 29, 2007
- 8,200
If everyone had the same wealth, who would work to provide the food the population needs, or the transport to bring it to your area, or to have someone to sell it it you?
Why would they do that rather than just expect it to be handed to them? And if they did do those sort of roles, i take it you wouldn't want to pay them for providing this service as they would become richer than those who don't do anything and mean you would have to take that extra wealth off them as they must be exploiting the poor to get rich and therefore only motivated by greed, etc as usually spouted by the envious
BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 17,114
I have not suggested that everyone has the same wealth.
BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 17,114
Double post