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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

  • Total voters
    1,081


L

Lincoln Imp

Well-known member
Feb 2, 2009
5,964
pastafarian said:
Its nice to see at last on this thread some common ground we all agree on, namely no one wants Ruskies or other foreign rotters interfering, trying to manipulate or trying to influence our voting.



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The concern is about covert attempts to influence British votes. The issue of Brexiters' political heroes such as Trump and Putin supporting Leave and virtually every other leader from the US to Australia openly backing Remain is a different issue altogether, surely?
 




beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,292
nicko31 said:
Question...

Do any Brexiteers have a sensible solution for the Irish border issue, in the extremely unlikely event we don't get a tariff free EU trade deal (for free of course)
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a suggestion was made, it was rejected. the trouble with this Irish issue is that the EU want it to be a problem, rather than a solution. they could use it as a excuse to move forward with a relaxed approch to trade ".. to assits our Irish friends who rely on trade and transit of good with UK, we'll make a one time deal on trade...". instead they have used it a road block.

along with unrealistic expectation for ECJ appling to EU citizens (would they recipricate? no) and the frankly daft arguement over a payment where they cant say what the bill is (because that highlights billions of overspending by the EU). they dont solutions, they want to drive towards no deal in the expectation we'll back down at the 11th hour, like they always do. they forget our proposensity to sheer bloody mindedness, and the capability to blame someone else for generations.
 


pastafarian

pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
Lincoln Imp said:
The concern is about covert attempts to influence British votes. The issue of Brexiters' political heroes such as Trump and Putin supporting Leave and virtually every other leader from the US to Australia openly backing Remain is a different issue altogether, surely?
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Influence being the key word, there is a subtle difference between supporting a stance (remain or Leave) and deliberately trying to influence votes either covertly or openly.
 


H

Hampster Gull

New member
Dec 22, 2010
13,462
The Clamp said:
But why don't we have any knowledge of what is actually happening? As a nation we were asked to vote, do you not think that we should now be kept abreast of negotiations? We have been abandoned by the very government that asked us to decide.

It's no surprise people speculate and look to all sorts of sources for information. We are not unpatriotic for asking questions.

We are not naysayers for asking questions. We are not moaning by asking questions. The very questions our government should be providing answers to.

And yes, you may accuse of us whining for asking such questions but I sincerely hope that Leave voters start asking some questions in a couple of years time when all the promises they believe they were voting for are not fulfilled.

Then, just maybe then you may have a slight empathy with the questions we raise now.
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We are patriotic for asking questions, the lazy and weak thrive when not questioned.
 


H

Hampster Gull

New member
Dec 22, 2010
13,462
GT49er said:
I find it ironic that a remainer (which I believe you to be - apologies if I'm wrong on that) who presumably endorses his fellow remainers constant insistence that leave voters didn't know what they were voting for and don't know any details of what we want out of the negotiations, should advocate a solution of the problem in the form of a new party without even knowing whether it will be pro-Brexit or pro-EU!
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The point wasn’t a leave or remain one, it was that we need a competent government that leads for the many not the few and leads on many issues not few issues
 




Baldseagull

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,942
Crawley
pastafarian said:
Its nice to see at last on this thread some common ground we all agree on, namely no one wants Ruskies or other foreign rotters interfering, trying to manipulate or trying to influence our voting.



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I remember Farage moaning about Obama, and that he should but out of British politics, shortly before appearing alongside Trump at a rally.
 


pastafarian

pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
Baldseagull said:
I remember Farage moaning about Obama, and that he should but out of British politics, shortly before appearing alongside Trump at a rally.
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i remember Farage not endorsing Trump and saying who he would not vote for as well.
I presume you are of the opinion both Farage and Obama should have stayed well clear.
 


Klaas

Klaas

I've changed this
Nov 1, 2017
2,562
pastafarian said:
i remember Farage not endorsing Trump and saying who he would not vote for as well.
I presume you are of the opinion both Farage and Obama should have stayed well clear.
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What about your spare porn?
 




Baldseagull

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,942
Crawley
pastafarian said:
i remember Farage not endorsing Trump and saying who he would not vote for as well.
I presume you are of the opinion both Farage and Obama should have stayed well clear.
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Not really, I think the views of other heads of state are always worth hearing, and If Trump wanted to pop up an example of a guy winning a vote most thought he would lose, Farage is a good example.
I just found it hypocritical of Farage.
I am not that bothered about Putin trying to influence opinion either, world governments seek to influence foreign politics all the time. It would be impossible to say how effective his campaign was, but given the narrow margin of victory for leave, I think he will reckon it gave him the result he wanted. On the other hand, the rest of the EU seems to be uniting quite well against Putin as a result of his inteference
 


D

Deleted member 22389

Guest
I try not to take any notice of it what is written in the press anymore when it comes to Brexit. As Brighton Mod correctly points out, it's all speculation. Nobody really has the foggiest what is going on, just best to wait and see what comes out. The articles written don't help anybody, they just create anger amongst people, depending on what way you voted.
 






Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,480
The Fatherland
BigGully said:
by all accounts you and your workmates somehow know more than the UK put together, couldn't make it up.
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Let’s ignore me. My current client is a FTSE100 listed company. Due to the heavy regulation of our industry they have a separate department which specialises in understanding and applying the legislation. They deal with drug agencies daily. Do they know as much as the government....I’d say yes, as it’s their job to. But I say its the same about many professionals. For example good legal firms should at least know as much about law as the government. A good architect should know as much about planning etc. And we certainly know that gent from FedEx knows more about customs than the government. There’s nothing special or secret or even clever about any of this..it’s just rules and regulations which are open to all the public and which they all know as part of their work. The rules which we all ponder, debate and make opinions about are exactly the same rules the government use.

Now, your whole argument yesterday was based on the premise that the government knows best and I appreciate you think there are some “highly trained” people in government as you said yesterday...but this also happens in the private sector.
 




B

BigGully

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2006
7,139
Herr Tubthumper said:
Let’s ignore me. My current client is a FTSE100 listed company. Due to the heavy regulation of our industry they have a separate department which specialises in understanding and applying the legislation. They deal with drug agencies daily. Do they know as much as the government....I’d say yes, as it’s their job to. But I say its the same about many professionals. For example good legal firms should at least know as much about law as the government. A good architect should know as much about planning etc. And we certainly know that gent from FedEx knows more about customs than the government. There’s nothing special or secret or even clever about any of this..it’s just rules and regulations which are open to all the public and which they all know as part of their work. The rules which we all ponder, debate and make opinions about are exactly the same rules the government use.

Now, your whole argument yesterday was based on the premise that the government knows best and I appreciate you think there are some “highly trained” people in government as you said yesterday...but this also happens in the private sector.
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But you didnt say that, as usual you put three definitive outcomes, all typically disaster scenarios, in fact that's all you ever post on anything associated with Brexit or the UK.

From what I recall, one could only be delivered by your version of a soft Brexit and the two other outcomes seem to be that the UK would as usual and more likely be going to hell in handcart, every single aspect of Brexit in your mind cannot offer anything different, again in my view the pharmaceutical industry will still function as effectively for the UK as it does now after Brexit, there might be changes but there always is and that's why your client has a separate department to deal with it.

My argument yesterday was based more on your scenario's being driven by a near desire for Brexit/UK failure rather than the ability of any government to ensure a smooth transition.
 




Two Professors

Two Professors

Two Mad Professors
Jul 13, 2009
7,617
Multicultural Brum
Baldseagull said:
He did at least provide a link so that it was easy to see how he made his error.
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Well you obviously didn't read the post if you think there was only one error.Perhaps you should have spent your evening clicking on the other links as you like them so much.Wouldn't have time on your hands to bore everyone with your negativity then,:kiss:would you!
 




Blue Valkyrie

Blue Valkyrie

Not seen such Bravery!
Sep 1, 2012
32,165
Valhalla
BigGully said:
But you didnt say that, as usual you put three definitive outcomes, all typically disaster scenarios, in fact that's all you ever post on anything associated with Brexit or the UK.

From what I recall, one could only be delivered by your version of a soft Brexit and the two other outcomes seem to be that the UK would as usual and more likely be going to hell in handcart, every single aspect of Brexit in your mind cannot offer anything different, again in my view the pharmaceutical industry will still function as effectively for the UK as it does now after Brexit, there might be changes but there always is and that's why your client has a separate department to deal with it.

My argument yesterday was based more on your scenario's being driven by a near desire for Brexit/UK failure rather than the ability of any government to ensure a smooth transition.
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True - The UK is 'going to hell in a handcart' but we are where we are, and there is nothing now that we can do about it :nono:
 


WATFORD zero

WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
25,783
BigGully said:
But you didnt say that, as usual you put three definitive outcomes, all typically disaster scenarios, in fact that's all you ever post on anything associated with Brexit or the UK.

From what I recall, one could only be delivered by your version of a soft Brexit and the two other outcomes seem to be that the UK would as usual and more likely be going to hell in handcart, every single aspect of Brexit in your mind cannot offer anything different, again in my view the pharmaceutical industry will still function as effectively for the UK as it does now after Brexit, there might be changes but there always is and that's why your client has a separate department to deal with it.

My argument yesterday was based more on your scenario's being driven by a near desire for Brexit/UK failure rather than the ability of any government to ensure a smooth transition.
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Here is the exact post to which you are referring

Herr Tubthumper said:
The MHRA is the UK equivalent of the EMA. Once Brexit happens they will have to handle every single drug application, license as well as uphold law and monitor and manage which comes Britain’s way....or wants to come Britain’s way. We’re talking about a heavyily regulated industry here; and before some twit cries EU red-tape think about why this might be. The majority of this work is conducted by the EMA which allows the MHRA to concentrate on specific UK items. But even with specific items they still mandate some stuff to the EMA. There is absolutely no way the MHRA will be able to bring everything in-house and do it all from the UK; not a cat-in-hells chance. This is due to the sheer volume of work and the nature of the staff they’d need to obtain. As I see it there are three outcomes

1) MHRA continues to operate with the EMA...only possible with a very soft Brexit due to the complex pan-EU pharma laws.
2) Stuff gets, at best delayed or at worse not approved.
3) UK becomes the Wild-west with medicines.
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You then dived in, on a subject where you have little to no knowledge and told him he was talking shite. You didn't address any of the potential issues he has highlighted.

BigGully said:
Yes yes that will happen no medicine for the UK if we do not have a soft Brexit, you really do talk some shite you really do ......
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Since then, despite being asked a few times, your alternative to what was suggested has been 'well the government will know what to do'.

I'm beginning to wonder whether you are BensGrandad's spoof account
 
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Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,480
The Fatherland
BigGully said:
But you didnt say that, as usual you put three definitive outcomes, all typically disaster scenarios, in fact that's all you ever post on anything associated with Brexit or the UK.

From what I recall, one could only be delivered by your version of a soft Brexit and the two other outcomes seem to be that the UK would as usual and more likely be going to hell in handcart, every single aspect of Brexit in your mind cannot offer anything different, again in my view the pharmaceutical industry will still function as effectively for the UK as it does now after Brexit, there might be changes but there always is and that's why your client has a separate department to deal with it.

My argument yesterday was based more on your scenario's being driven by a near desire for Brexit/UK failure rather than the ability of any government to ensure a smooth transition.
Click to expand...

Let’s get a few points straight first. I posted three outcomes which are the views of a broad group of industry people I know. I clearly stated this was not my view, not necessarily an industry view, but the view of the people I work with. If this wasn’t clear from my initial post it was certainly clarified later. And I invited folk to offer other outcomes as my 3 points are not exhaustive. Again, if I wasn’t clear from the off I certainly clarified things as the day progressed. And the first bullet was not a disaster scenario at all; its a outcome which many people want to happen including at least two government ministers. I’m not sure why you keep adding subtle, and not so subtle, twists to my words.

Now let’s move onto your view. I’m happy to be corrected but this was seemingly based on nothing but the idea that the government will sort it out. If I was to counter you by saying, with no explanation, the government won’t sort it out surely you can see how futile your response was? And when you got pressed on this you went defensive, started to lash out with comments about how we think we know it all, arrogance and giving me a metaphorical “whack around my face.” For whatever reason you seemed to grow increasingly frustrated as the day moved on. Maybe this wasn’t the case but this was how it came across.

If you want to address specific points I made fine...if you just want to continue to casually dismiss my thoughts I’ll park this one.
 




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