Oscar Pistorius

Bold Seagull · Apr 14, 2014

KZNSeagull said:
- When listening to Oscar, his sister's facial expression has changed from aggressive and head shaking at the start of cross-exam, to very passive, almost incredulous as to what she is hearing Oscar say. She isn't stupid (his brother is, but I think she has some intelligence within her). Am also interested to see that his Uncle does not appear to be in court today (at least he has not been on camera).

Joseph Goebbels said if you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will believe you. The mindset of Pistorius must be that he hasn't told a living soul of the 'truth'. He has repeated his version to everyone, his family, defence team and now the court. Psychologically OP may even now believe it as the truth given it's a possible truth. Like a trauma victim, perhaps he has literally blanked out what actually happened and convinced himself that because his version is possible and could have happened, and it's therefore what happened.

The cracks emerge because this truth is a narrative. OP has had months to rehearse every aspect, but it's the tiny details that start as almost meaningless or seemingly inconsequential questions that open up into these great caverns of contradiction.

I cannot know how it feels to be a family member in this situation. You must want to believe your brother's story, to not must be to open the chasm of a truth that destroys your family for what it was. However, whatever veil of belief they have in their brother must surely be getting thinner and thinner as this trial moves on.

KZNSeagull · Apr 14, 2014

Oscar concedes that Reeva must have been standing behind the toilet door, facing the door (because bullet A hit her in the hip and the only way that would have happened is if she was standing up facing the door) . He does not know why she would do that. Nel says the only possible reason is that she was talking to him through the door. Oscar is close to blubbing and puking again

KZNSeagull · Apr 14, 2014

Every time up til now Oscar has been getting upset, his sister has been getting upset. She has stopped - her face is telling me "I do not believe what you are saying".

NSC needs a body language expert!!

KZNSeagull · Apr 14, 2014

Adjourned for the day. Nel to carry on tomorrow with what he says are "lots of questions about the toilet"

Oscar says that after he fired the shots, he went back into the bedroom to check for Reeva. He says he climbed across the bed, checked with his hands on the floor and behind the curtains, then went back to the bathroom without checking the bedroom door, and shoulder charged the toilet door. Then he went back into his bedroom again, opened the balcony doors and called for help (Oscar did say check the balcony, Nel jumped on him for using the word check as he has finished checking for Reeva by then). Oscar then put his legs on, and went back to the bathroom to break door down.

He did all of the above with a loaded, cocked gun in his right hand, apparently.

So Nel to carry on tomorrow. I really hope he asks how he ran up and down all these times on his stumps as Oscar says he can hardly move on his stumps. Also, how did Oscar move the fan without looking down the passageway, as he states - the only way is to move sideways whilst holding the fan in 2 hands, on his stumps, that he can hardly move on.

His pants have incinerated.

withdeanwombat · Apr 14, 2014

He's innocent. It was suicide.

Triggaaar · Apr 14, 2014

KZNSeagull said:
Oscar is still arguing with Nel, even though Nel has told him several times not to as it is hurting his credibility.

I find it odd that you'd say that, as if you actually believe that Nel is trying to do Oscar a favour by telling him that. If Oscar disagrees with what Nel says, it makes sense to challenge it.

KZNSeagull said:
So what do we reckon chaps? I think Nel has got him on the ropes.

I reckon you've got a serious crush on Nel.

KZNSeagull · Apr 14, 2014

Triggaaar said:
I find it odd that you'd say that, as if you actually believe that Nel is trying to do Oscar a favour by telling him that. If Oscar disagrees with what Nel says, it makes sense to challenge it.

I reckon you've got a serious crush on Nel.

He is there to answer questions put to him. He can just say no, that is not correct, not go off on a 5 minute ramble including querying Nel's interpretation of the law. It would help if he did not change his story and did not argue with Nel about things that he clearly said and then said he didn't. Nel is winning every argument about the main crux of the case, so Oscar is arguing about everything else.

I am seriously impressed with Nel, yes. I will leave the crushes to you. :thumbsup:

Triggaaar · Apr 14, 2014

KZNSeagull said:
He is there to answer questions put to him. He can just say no, that is not correct, not go off on a 5 minute ramble including querying Nel's interpretation of the law. It would help if he did not change his story and did not argue with Nel about things that he clearly said and then said he didn't.

Regardless of all that, Nel is not going to give Oscar advice that will help Oscar, so I find it odd that you think Oscar should listen to Nel as if he is there to help.

Nel is winning every argument about the main crux of the case, so Oscar is arguing about everything else.

If Oscar is guilty, and his defence is a pack of lies, then it's hardly surprising he's losing the arguments, and it would take a fairly poor prosecution lawyer to lose.

METALMICKY · Apr 14, 2014

KZNSeagull said:
He is just twisting and turning like a twisty turning thing, and you can call me Susan if it isn't so.

Funny you should say that because any minute I'm expecting him go with the pants on his head, pencil up his nose and then say "wibble" defence. However, I reckon Neil might pin the murder of speckled Jim on him too!

KZNSeagull · Apr 14, 2014

Triggaaar said:
Regardless of all that, Nel is not going to give Oscar advice that will help Oscar, so I find it odd that you think Oscar should listen to Nel as if he is there to help.

If he was giving Oscar bad advice, Oscar's lawyers would be jumping up and down but they aren't.

Triggaaar · Apr 14, 2014

KZNSeagull said:
If he was giving Oscar bad advice, Oscar's lawyers would be jumping up and down but they aren't.

That's nonsense. Nel isn't employed to give Oscar advice, and Oscar shouldn't be expecting advice from Nel. When Nel says 'arguing with me is hurting your credibility', Oscar's lawyers have no legal grounds to complain that it's poor advice. It's just Nel's way of trying to unsettle Oscar, and make him look bad in the judge's eyes.

KZNSeagull · Apr 15, 2014

Triggaaar said:
That's nonsense. Nel isn't employed to give Oscar advice, and Oscar shouldn't be expecting advice from Nel. When Nel says 'arguing with me is hurting your credibility', Oscar's lawyers have no legal grounds to complain that it's poor advice. It's just Nel's way of trying to unsettle Oscar, and make him look bad in the judge's eyes.

A lot of the commentators here, including lawyers, are saying that Nel is correct and that Oscar is hurting his defence with his constant arguing. But yes, it is part of his tactics, as is Nel getting little details wrong so that Oscar corrects him.

fat old seagull · Apr 15, 2014

KZNSeagull said:
He may be, but he is not that clever. And he will certainly not be able to afford a re-trial/appeal - which is not a reason not to have one, but someone will have to cough up a huge sum of money to do it and I am not sure there are many out there that would want to.

He is just twisting and turning like a twisty turning thing, and you can call me Susan if it isn't so.

Sorry Susan, I think you are getting him confused with Chubby Checker ! :smile:

KZNSeagull · Apr 15, 2014

An interesting aside for Gerrie Nel. I doubt it will get very far:

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/20...ssion-asked-to-probe-nel-over-pistorius-trial

Fran Hagarty · Apr 15, 2014

An interesting article from Vanity Fair:

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2013/06/oscar-pistorius-murder

LamieRobertson · Apr 15, 2014

Blinking annoying having this trial on bbc news24 every single morning!

hans kraay fan club · Apr 15, 2014

LamieRobertson said:
Blinking annoying having this trial on bbc news24 every single morning!

Not nearly as annoying as having constant updates on it, on Sky Sports News. Whilst I am interested in the case, it is NOT sports news, and I don't think that all the young kids sat with SSN on during the Easter holidays, need to be constantly subjected to the details of it.

KZNSeagull · Apr 15, 2014

Oscar has conceded that the only person who could have opened the window was Reeva. So in the time it took for Oscar to get his gun and go along the passage to the bathroom, Reeva went into the toilet, had a wee and then shut the door and locked it.

LamieRobertson · Apr 15, 2014

hans kraay fan club said:
Not nearly as annoying as having constant updates on it, on Sky Sports News. Whilst I am interested in the case, it is NOT sports news, and I don't think that all the young kids sat with SSN on during the Easter holidays, need to be constantly subjected to the details of it.

Good point

Hillian1 · Apr 15, 2014

hans kraay fan club said:
Not nearly as annoying as having constant updates on it, on Sky Sports News. Whilst I am interested in the case, it is NOT sports news, and I don't think that all the young kids sat with SSN on during the Easter holidays, need to be constantly subjected to the details of it.

Should be outside eating mud, like we done innit.

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