[Albion] Bong being abused all game.

ClaretMatt · May 2, 2018

LamieRobertson said:
May i suggest you pop (again politely) to your own board..is can't you because you've been banned there?

You can suggest (in all the poorly typed English you'd like) so but I (politely) decline to. The answer to the question (if I have deciphered it correctly) is no.

LamieRobertson · May 2, 2018

Mellotron said:
I'll give you a hint as to which way the wind is blowing nationally.

Chris Hughton (probably one of the most universally-respected English coaches in the game) condemned the Burnley fans
The FA condemned the Burnley fans
Kick It Out condemned the Burnley fans
Sky Sports also reported it in a negative manner concerning the Burnley fans.

I don't think he does rational statements so you are wasting your time

Mellotron · May 2, 2018

ClaretMatt said:
I didn't anticipate such a response from BHA.

I think this is the crux - the worry is how surprised Burnley fans have been at how not OK BHA (and it's fans), The FA and Kick It Out are with racism, or apologists for racism, dog whistle racism, and accidental racism. None of them are ok.

That this has surprised Burnley fans so much is really genuinely quite worrying and disturbing, and does suggest something needs doing at Burnley FC to change the culture, as it sounds like is also happening on your main messageboard?

Didn't mean for it come across racist? Fine, understood, apologise for ****ing up and move on. Nothing more to see really.

aolstudios · May 2, 2018

Bozza said:
Hopefully, we've all taken a big lesson from this:

Never start on a Burnley player. Given their defence of someone who long since left them for far better things, god help anyone who has a pop at one who is still a Claret.

Especially if race is involved, I strongly suspect. Or maybe that's the real issue...

Sheebo · May 2, 2018

ClaretMatt said:
The tribunal report (and common sense) doesn't suggest the holding his nose was anything other than part of a (admittedly childish) gesture to suggest GB's breath smelled*. In fact GB had no issue with the gesture until he changed his statement whilst on TV**. The only people suggesting this action was a deliberate attempt to hide what was said from the cameras are Brighton fans. The report quite rightly highlights the unlikely nature of the phrasing of the alleged insult***.

Brighton fans are happy to quote the report as gospel for the statement that GB's actions were not malicious yet are happy to contradict (or are just plain ignorant of) the statements which are similarly strong in favour of JR.

The inconsistency and logical likelihood of the insult suggest to me that GB misheard the statement in the heat of the moment, I don't for a second suggest that he maliciously created the accusation. Whereas you, and a number of Brighton fans, are happy to brand a man racist without any evidence. As such I'd suggest you're the one who is "digging".

* "We are satisfied the Player did not deliberately cover his mouth. His hand did obscure his mouth but that was part and parcel of, and incidental to, the action of pinching his nose."

** "We noted a further inconsistency between GB’s evidence to us and parts of an interview on SFR Sport. He told us “I don't know what the mean the gesture [sic], I'm not looking for the gesture” and “…it's not even like the gesture, it's the words”. However, during the SFR interview he said “he did that because of the colour of my skin. Everybody can see this gesture, and I asked him to repeat what he said” and “...I signalled the gesture to the referee. This specific gesture to accentuate his comments…this gesture must be banned.....”

*** "We also agree that the alleged insult is somewhat unusual: “you’re black, you stink” or “you’re black and you smell”. We agree that one might more generally expect the word black to be followed by a noun, probably an offensive one"

FFS! Nobody knows if he said it or not apart from HIM and probably Bong. Both seem adamant. There wasn't enough evidence to charge him properly, the incident was unsavoury and probably best left alone. The only clear thing is Bong acted in good faith - we're not clear on JR and his subsequent twitter goading after the 'not proven' verdict was shameful. It was best left alone, Your lot decided NOT to and let themselves down. JR would not have been booed like that for the whole game at the Amex prior to Burnley idiots booing Bong - I'm sure ofthat. You're digging and digging deep into something that nobody knows - just to justify actions that Hughton, BHA, BHA fans, Football fans with half a brain, Kick It Out, the FA etc all thought was out of order. ime to just accept he shouldn't have been booed and move on...

Imagine if Joey Barton had deliberately stamped on one of your players and cost you promotion a few years back 0- we'd never hear the end of it!!!

Kalimantan Gull · May 2, 2018

ClaretMatt said:
I must have missed the TV interview Rodriguez made whilst the investigation was ongoing...

He refuted the allegation and said he/they would be contesting it, with the absolute minimum of comment, as is within what would be expected during such a process. GB went on TV to reiterate (and contradict) his accusation, which clearly isn't.

If you can't see the difference between the two then there's really no point engaging with you.

The investigation went on for AGES. JR made several statements protesting his innocence, contracting lip-readers etc etc. All of which none of us had a problem with. GB did one interview where he said nothing new to the day of the event, other than how shocked he was that this was the first time this had happened to him in 3 years.

As there is no substantive difference between the two things, and none of us can see that difference, then why are you engaging with any of us?

LamieRobertson · May 2, 2018

ClaretMatt said:
You can suggest (in all the poorly typed English you'd like) so but I (politely) decline to. The answer to the question (if I have deciphered it correctly) is no.

Oh dear me.....i must apologise....still you worked it out anyway...counters what people must think, that you are capable of working something out

Hotchilidog · May 2, 2018

Mellotron said:
I think this is the crux - the worry is that how surprised Burnley fans have been at how not OK BHA (and it's fans), The FA and Kick It Out are with racism, or apologists for racism, dog whistle racism, and accidental racism. None of them are ok. That this has surprised Burnley fans so much is really genuinely quite worrying and disturbing.

Didn't mean for it come across racist? Fine, understood, apologise and move on.

Absolutely right. Sick of this sh*te. You can dress up in all the pretty words you like, I heard the booing and quite frankly 'shameful' was a diplomatic description of it.

Kalimantan Gull · May 2, 2018

ClaretMatt said:
Hughton's comments branding the booing "shameless" and setting the narrative for the booing as the majority of Burnley fans suggesting that Bong lied, which is not the case, is also, IMO, a malicious act.

Hughton 'set the narrative'? Trust me, I'm sitting there watching it on the TV with others and there was absolutely no other interpretation to be drawn from your boos!

If thats not what you intended then a pretty sincere apology is needed from your fan leaders, I really don't know what arguing with Brighton fans on a Brighton messageboard is going to achieve

ClaretMatt · May 2, 2018

Kalimantan Gull said:
we weren't the ones booing JR*. You were booing GB. So the events on Saturday are totally about what you think of GB, and your taking the report out of context, and nothing to do with what we think of JR or how we take the report.

*We probably will now

As I've stated multiple times the booing from myself, and those around me, was nothing to do with taking the report out of context but for the continued accusations by Bong (and BHA) outside of the process of the tribunal.

Had these comments not been made then I would not have booed and I would predict that neither would the majority of fans. In fact I would have condemned it. Had the accusation been proven then, IMO, there wouldn't have been any booing at all (bar the odd moron or two who would have been challenged there and then).

LamieRobertson · May 2, 2018

Kalimantan Gull said:
Hughton 'set the narrative'? Trust me, I'm sitting there watching it on the TV with others and there was absolutely no other interpretation to be drawn from your boos!

He can't he's not capable

Kalimantan Gull · May 2, 2018

ClaretMatt said:
As I've stated multiple times the booing from myself, and those around me, was nothing to do with taking the report out of context but for the continued accusations by Bong (and BHA) outside of the process of the tribunal.

Had these comments not been made then I would not have booed and I would predict that neither would the majority of fans. In fact I would have condemned it. Had the accusation been proven then, IMO, there wouldn't have been any booing at all (bar the odd moron or two who would have been challenged there and then).

Bong didn't say anything that wasn't in the tribunal report. So basically, all you're saying is that you wish the black man would shut up.

Wrong-Direction · May 2, 2018

Christ this is dragging out far too long

Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk

The Kid Frankie · May 2, 2018

ClaretMatt said:
Has that been reported / have Burnley launched an investigation, publicised they have done so or contacted the police?

That would be a no. So, again, if you can't see the difference between the two then there's little point engaging with you.

It's all over the forums and social media. Plenty of Burnley saying they heard it (they didn't - I was there).

Maybe the reason it wasn't reported/investigated/reported to the OB is because there is no substance to it at all?

There's little point in either side engaging with one another any more. We will never agree. I don't think two places in the same country could be further apart in terms of culture and philosophy.

LamieRobertson · May 2, 2018

ClaretMatt said:
As I've stated multiple times the booing from myself, and those around me, was nothing to do with taking the report out of context but for the continued accusations by Bong (and BHA) outside of the process of the tribunal.

Had these comments not been made then I would not have booed and I would predict that neither would the majority of fans. In fact I would have condemned it. Had the accusation been proven then, IMO, there wouldn't have been any booing at all (bar the odd moron or two who would have been challenged there and then).

If JR hadn't come out with his ''not innocent''....Gb wouldn't have had to come out to confirm his own position....probably too hard for you to work it out...go away for a year or so then come back with the right answer

The Kid Frankie · May 2, 2018

ClaretMatt said:
As I've stated multiple times the booing from myself, and those around me, was nothing to do with taking the report out of context but for the continued accusations by Bong (and BHA) outside of the process of the tribunal.

Had these comments not been made then I would not have booed and I would predict that neither would the majority of fans. In fact I would have condemned it. Had the accusation been proven then, IMO, there wouldn't have been any booing at all (bar the odd moron or two who would have been challenged there and then).

Strongly disagree. I think it would have been even worse.

Mellotron · May 2, 2018

ClaretMatt said:
As I've stated multiple times the booing from myself, and those around me, was nothing to do with taking the report out of context but for the continued accusations by Bong (and BHA) outside of the process of the tribunal.

Booing doesn't really work like that though, does it? You can't inflect the boo with a certain tone to confirm which bit you're booing at.

At the end of the day, the truth is that a large number of Burnley fans booed a black player for his involvement in a situation where he may well have been subject to racist abuse.

That's the long and short of what actually happened on the day - you repeatedly booed a player for complaining about possibly being racially abused.

If you're cool to stand by that then there's nothing further to say, and as mentioned above we clearly couldn't be further apart as clubs culturally.

Sheebo · May 2, 2018

ClaretMatt said:
Hughton's comments branding the booing "shameless" and setting the narrative for the booing as the majority of Burnley fans suggesting that Bong lied, which is not the case, is also, IMO, a malicious act.

You're again misquoting. He said he glanced into the stands and it looked like the cast of Shameless...

Bob'n'weave · May 2, 2018

ClaretMatt said:
The tribunal report (and common sense) doesn't suggest the holding his nose was anything other than part of a (admittedly childish) gesture to suggest GB's breath smelled*. In fact GB had no issue with the gesture until he changed his statement whilst on TV**. The only people suggesting this action was a deliberate attempt to hide what was said from the cameras are Brighton fans. The report quite rightly highlights the unlikely nature of the phrasing of the alleged insult***.

Brighton fans are happy to quote the report as gospel for the statement that GB's actions were not malicious yet are happy to contradict (or are just plain ignorant of) the statements which are similarly strong in favour of JR.

The inconsistency and logical likelihood of the insult suggest to me that GB misheard the statement in the heat of the moment, I don't for a second suggest that he maliciously created the accusation. Whereas you, and a number of Brighton fans, are happy to brand a man racist without any evidence. As such I'd suggest you're the one who is "digging".

* "We are satisfied the Player did not deliberately cover his mouth. His hand did obscure his mouth but that was part and parcel of, and incidental to, the action of pinching his nose."

** "We noted a further inconsistency between GB’s evidence to us and parts of an interview on SFR Sport. He told us “I don't know what the mean the gesture [sic], I'm not looking for the gesture” and “…it's not even like the gesture, it's the words”. However, during the SFR interview he said “he did that because of the colour of my skin. Everybody can see this gesture, and I asked him to repeat what he said” and “...I signalled the gesture to the referee. This specific gesture to accentuate his comments…this gesture must be banned.....”

*** "We also agree that the alleged insult is somewhat unusual: “you’re black, you stink” or “you’re black and you smell”. We agree that one might more generally expect the word black to be followed by a noun, probably an offensive one"

Your are entering the world of semantics. The problem you face is not the interpretation of 'facts' but the simple truth that JR made a derogatory gesture to a black player which is being seen as racially motivated. Anyone watching the footage will see that and make their own mind up. Not proven does not provide any 'truth' regarding his intention so the world is now making its own mind up on the only evidence available, JR holding his nose and making a comment to Bong followed by 90 mins of booing him from fans who decided that JR is some kind of victim. Thats it. Sorry but all the waffle is not going to make that disappear. As for Brighton fans being the only voices asking questions or raising concerns, you are mistaken.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...unacceptable-booing-gaetan-bong-burnley-fans/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43951753

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/burnley-fans-branded-disgraceful-disgusting-12450917

Or do BHA fans now control the media? The fact is that this whole incident could have been forgotten about if Burnley fans had not booed a black player for 90 mins because of their views on the incident. Because of this, the spotlight is on Blackburn FC, and the silence from your club is still deafening. Whatever you think, this is the situation that Burnley now face, not Brighton.

ClaretMatt · May 2, 2018

Mellotron said:
I think this is the crux - the worry is how surprised Burnley fans have been at how not OK BHA (and it's fans), The FA and Kick It Out are with racism, or apologists for racism, dog whistle racism, and accidental racism. None of them are ok.

That this has surprised Burnley fans so much is really genuinely quite worrying and disturbing, and does suggest something needs doing at Burnley FC to change the culture, as it sounds like is also happening on your main messageboard?

Didn't mean for it come across racist? Fine, understood, apologise for ****ing up and move on. Nothing more to see really.

It wasn't racist, accidentally or otherwise.

If it has been misinterpreted as such then I am happy to apologise and move on but I do not accept that my actions were, in any way, racist.

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