Of course it's NOT a free service.
Travel costs, time off work on holiday, hours spent on online tests etc. etc. etc.
And in return Radio Silence.
Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊
Job Vacancy - Recruitment Consultant - no experience necessary - excellent £££
- Thread starter Commander
- Start date
Travel costs, time off work on holiday, hours spent on online tests etc. etc. etc.
And in return Radio Silence.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,333
i'm aware of that, you've missed the point. they dont need to give all the flannel to the candidates about how great they are, how they are working to get them the job etc. its false and creates a bad relationship when they ditch you for the next candidate on the database.
yes, its really easy to change agent if thats the one the employer is using :rollseyes: in fact even if they have two, the second wont talk to you about the role. people apply to roles to keep the agents happy because of (false) promise it will help look for a job (i.e. dont help me the agent, i wont bother help you.)
Cadiz Seagull
Grey bearded old man
There's nothing to stop you applying direct to the employer if you don't like the agent. Most employers would be happy to save a large agency fee if they can. But you'll need to be persistant to get an interview as they may want to take the lazy way out and let the agent do all the work; after all, the agent's fee doesn't come out of the pocket of they guy doing the employing.
- Thread starter
- #84
I would suggest that if you are the kind of candidate that will apply to a role to keep an agent happy, then you probably aren't the kind of candidate that a recruitment consultant is going to dedicate their time to finding a job. Being brutally honest.
It always puzzles me when people moan that a recruitment consultant hasn't found them a job. What do people think recruitment consultants do? Wave a magic wand? They have a telephone and a computer, no different to anything a candidate has. Rather than moaning about recruiters not finding them jobs, people could always pick up the phone and do what the recruiters do- it's not rocket science. And they'd be miles ahead of a recruiter in the game because there would be no fee for the client to pay!
KingstonSeagull
New member
What if they were applying to be a rocket scientist and the first part was a test on how good at rocket science you are?
- Thread starter
- #86
Well if you come across any agencies that specialise in placing rocket scientists then please let me know because I'd like to work for them, there must be loads of money in it.
KingstonSeagull
New member
LOADSAMONEY! Catfoss Engineering Recruitment Ltd specialise in Aerospace and Military engineering recruitment. I hope you get the job!
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,333
so you're saying those eager, naive or desperate to find a their next job arent good enough, just fodder for the recruitment mill? sharp practice like this, and absolving blame onto the job seekers, is what gives your industry a bad rep. agents not being chancers, shysters and liars will make the industry more reputable.
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #89
What you don't seem to understand is that recruitment companies are not there to find you jobs, they are businesses that need to make a profit, same as any other business. Tell me how working with candidates who are naive or desperate looks to that agency's clients?
If you were a client and paid good money for an agency to fill your vacancy, and the agency submitted candidates who were naive or desperate, what would you think? Do you think that's the kind of agency you'd like to pay good money to again?
Of course agencies are only going to work with candidates who they think they can place! It's not a charity! I don't understand why that is so hard to grasp, or how there is possibly anything wrong with that.
Nobody forces a candidate to go through an agency, and the candidate never has to pay a penny. So the constant whinging about the free service to the candidate that recruitment agencies provide grates on me a bit.
If you sat on the other side of the fence for a couple of months you'd realise that there are just as many shysters and liars on the other side. Do you know how often I get told "My car has broken down, I can't get to the interview"!? So often that the only response to it is to laugh.
Agencies are only ever going to want to work with the candidates that give their agency the best possible reputation. The candidates are their product. If you apply for a job and the agency already has better candidates for the role than you then tough luck, that's the way the world works!
In my trade Agencies are leeches. They get onto the construction/electrical/mechanical companies and offer to take over the employees. They charge the construction company the same rate as what they would pay the employee and then pay the employee a lower rate, thus creaming off the rate of said employee.
These agencies then charge their employee between £15 - £20 a week for the privilege of paying their wages. That is if you are not being taken on under the Umbrella scheme, where even though you are working for these poxy agencies, you are still not classed as an employee and so pay NI as an employer and employee.
I think these agencies should be banned and luckily i manage to work direct for the companies and can avoid the "middle men" creaming off my hourly/daily rate.
Your quote: "Agencies are only ever going to want to work with the candidates that give their agency the best possible reputation."......absolute tosh, just get a body on site to start creaming off the cash, if the candidate is no good then another is shoved in.
Your quote: "The candidates are their product."......Really, most are candidates that want a job but can not get on direct because the agencies do the work of that employer for around the rate they would pay, then they pay the "candidate" a lower rate. The "candidates" would rather work direct.
I have worked on a few jobs direct and the agency have come on the job, offered the employer to pay the same as him and take us on at a lower rate. A few choice words were exchanged and the guys in the sharp suits and brown shoes were soon on their toes.
Leeches.
- Thread starter
- #91
With respect, I think we're talking about completely different things. The company I work for, and in the markets we work, there is absolutely nothing like that going on, it simply wouldn't work.
Ive heard that construction agencies can be very cowboy ish, but I don't have any first hand experience of it as I've never worked in that market, thank God. Categorically, what we do is a completely different animal to what you are talking about. You can't 'just get bodies on site' in the Pharma industry!
For what it's worth, I agree with you, that kind of practice sounds horrendous. Leeches.
Fair enough, i do realise that there are agencies that have to find the proper candidate, as opposed to having a list that they can ring around and play them off against each other. So my apologies to you....... but i had to find out.... now i know.
- Thread starter
- #93
No problem. The work that we do is finding vey high-level, niche candidates, so the scenario you describe could never happen. That said, I've worked for other agencies on lower-level stuff in other markets, and have never witnessed the kind of behaviour you describe. I don't think that is recruitment really, and it's bordering on illegal.
Justice
Dangerous Idiot
We have had talks of mega wage earning, being flown all over the world first class, eating in the swankiest restaurants, staying in 20* hotels yet the team leader drives a Skoda? If you were a director of this wonderful company would you want a team leader/manager turning up meeting clients in a ****ing Skoda?
I have to disagree with some of this and for once agree with some of what [MENTION=26105]Soulman[/MENTION] has said. I work in the pharma industry and its a huge sector which covers many many many disciplines and areas which sometimes have little relevance to the industry directly e.g. IT or manufacturing. I agree that in some areas you need specialist skills and just cannot put "bodies on site." Other areas you can and it does happen. And unless you know someone inside it can be almost impossible to get in via the back door.
Personally I have mixed feelings about recruitment agencies*. Like everything, some are good and some not so. You and your company seem fine. But to suggest the pharma sector is immune from not so good agencies isn't strictly correct; your thoughts may well be correct for the section of the sector you recruit for though. The main issue I have is an extra body between me and a potential employer; I would then feel it wasn't just down to me if I got a job but also down to the recruiters performance. Just a personal thing.
* I'm lucky that I've never needed an agent other than to process my invoices. The good side of this sector is that once you're established there is so much movement within the industry you will start to develop contacts everywhere.
PS how much cut do I get for finding you some good workers?
MattBackHome
Well-known member
- Jul 7, 2003
- 11,736
I have to say I like the way [MENTION=2095]Commander[/MENTION] sells this as an opportunity.
It's certainly not for me (I ****ing hate hard work and absolutely refuse to start early and stay late - life's too short) but I'm glad it worked before for churley and hope it works again for someone.
It's certainly not for me (I ****ing hate hard work and absolutely refuse to start early and stay late - life's too short) but I'm glad it worked before for churley and hope it works again for someone.
- Thread starter
- #97
It's the safest family car on the market, so yes. Plus to be fair it is brand new and very shiny.
(If the Team Manager didn't have such a ridiculous amount of debt due to overly-extravagant house purchases then he'd probably drive something a bit more exciting)
I have to disagree with some of this and for once agree with some of what [MENTION=26105]Soulman[/MENTION] has said. I work in the pharma industry and its a huge sector which covers many many many disciplines and areas which sometimes have little relevance to the industry directly e.g. IT or manufacturing. I agree that in some areas you need specialist skills and just cannot put "bodies on site." Other areas you can and it does happen. And unless you know someone inside it can be almost impossible to get in via the back door.
Personally I have mixed feelings about recruitment agencies*. Like everything, some are good and some not so. You and your company seem fine. But to suggest the pharma sector is immune from not so good agencies isn't strictly correct; your thoughts may well be correct for the section of the sector you recruit for though. The main issue I have is an extra body between me and a potential employer; I would then feel it wasn't just down to me if I got a job but also down to the recruiters performance. Just a personal thing.
* I'm lucky that I've never needed an agent other than to process my invoices. The good side of this sector is that once you're established there is so much movement within the industry you will start to develop contacts everywhere.
PS how much cut do I get for finding you some good workers?
The Pharma industry employs everything from VPs all the way down to cleaners- we don't. There are no vertical markets that we work in that you can just put bodies on site in. Our business model is low volume, high margin placements, so we would never work on the lower end stuff. Plenty of agencies do, but I can't speak for them.
Out of interest which bit do you recruit for?
- Thread starter
- #99
To be fair that's the was exactly my mentality a few years ago, things changed one I got married and had kids, suddenly things were different. Plus my plan is not to be in it for ever, I'll take the money and run at some point and do something less stressful. But that's a good few years away yet.
- Thread starter
- #100
Personally I recruit in the market access sector. Contractors who are tasked with getting a drug to market once it's been approved, they charge a grand or two a day, so it's pretty high level stuff.