[Albion] Jay Rodriguez: "The truth came out"

Beanstalk · Sep 14, 2018

SAC said:
He should be upset that it wasn't possible to be fully exonerated, not proven was the best possible outcome for him. If he didn't say anything racist then I would imagine that he is still very upset.

Milan Baros made the same gesture, but didn't say anything, in 2007, to Stéphane MBia. After a similar process to the Bong/Rodriguez incident, Baros was ruled innocent of racist behaviour but banned for the gesture which was deemed ungentlemanly. There is a history surrounding this gesture being aimed at African players. Whether Rodriguez said anything racist or not, it doesn't mean that there wasn't something wrong about his actions, he probably wouldn't have even thought of doing it to an English player.

For the record, I'm not calling Rodriguez a racist, I think he (regardless of words said), like Baros, made a stupid decision to try and rile up an opponent in the heat of the moment during a competitive game without thinking of the consequences. He made a gesture that is historically linked with racism (just look at soap adverts over the past 150 years) and has appeared to regret it. It should now be left in the past, but to pretend as if (because he didn't pair words with his actions) there isn't any racist motivation (subconsciously in my opinion) involved is being blind to the wider issue.

SAC · Sep 14, 2018

Beanstalk said:
Milan Baros made the same gesture, but didn't say anything, in 2007, to Stéphane MBia. After a similar process to the Bong/Rodriguez incident, Baros was ruled innocent of racist behaviour but banned for the gesture which was deemed ungentlemanly. There is a history surrounding this gesture being aimed at African players. Whether Rodriguez said anything racist or not, it doesn't mean that there wasn't something wrong about his actions, he probably wouldn't have even thought of doing it to an English player.

For the record, I'm not calling Rodriguez a racist, I think he (regardless of words said), like Baros, made a stupid decision to try and rile up an opponent in the heat of the moment during a competitive game without thinking of the consequences. He made a gesture that is historically linked with racism (just look at soap adverts over the past 150 years) and has appeared to regret it. It should now be left in the past, but to pretend as if (because he didn't pair words with his actions) there isn't any racist motivation (subconsciously in my opinion) involved is being blind to the wider issue.

Rubbish. Back in primary school it was a common insult to say that someone stinks, in particular if someone is in your face, and there was no racial motivation. It's a very childish thing to do but I have never heard of it being linked to racism before.

Commander · Sep 14, 2018

Beanstalk said:
Milan Baros made the same gesture, but didn't say anything, in 2007, to Stéphane MBia. After a similar process to the Bong/Rodriguez incident, Baros was ruled innocent of racist behaviour but banned for the gesture which was deemed ungentlemanly. There is a history surrounding this gesture being aimed at African players. Whether Rodriguez said anything racist or not, it doesn't mean that there wasn't something wrong about his actions, he probably wouldn't have even thought of doing it to an English player.

For the record, I'm not calling Rodriguez a racist, I think he (regardless of words said), like Baros, made a stupid decision to try and rile up an opponent in the heat of the moment during a competitive game without thinking of the consequences. He made a gesture that is historically linked with racism (just look at soap adverts over the past 150 years) and has appeared to regret it. It should now be left in the past, but to pretend as if (because he didn't pair words with his actions) there isn't any racist motivation (subconsciously in my opinion) involved is being blind to the wider issue.

I do think people over-think this stuff sometimes. I highly doubt that your average professional footballer would consider that telling someone they stink in the heat of the moment (which they probably do) could have dangerous connotations with, for example, soap adverts from 100 years ago and a historical association of a particular gesture towards players of African heritage. I mean, come on, he's a footballer FFS. He's not a leader of men or a captain of industry. He clashed with someone on a football pitch and said whatever came into his head at the time. Maybe it was racist, Bong clearly thought it was, maybe it wasn't. Who knows? I doubt he's even thought about the wider issue.

Thunder Bolt · Sep 14, 2018

Postman Pat said:
I think he probably means the recent court case about speeding, driving without a licence, and failure to disclose who was driving his car.

He hasn't appeared in court to defend himself yet. I'm not saying he isn't guilty of all three, but the magistrates did only check to see if he had a UK licence.

Wozza · Sep 14, 2018

Commander said:
Totally. Happens all the time. Nobody will ever know the truth.

Tsk! Jay said the truth came out!

Beanstalk · Sep 14, 2018

Commander said:
I do think people over-think this stuff sometimes. I highly doubt that your average professional footballer would consider that telling someone they stink in the heat of the moment (which they probably do) could have dangerous connotations with, for example, soap adverts from 100 years ago and a historical association of a particular gesture towards players of African heritage. I mean, come on, he's a footballer FFS. He's not a leader of men or a captain of industry. He clashed with someone on a football pitch and said whatever came into his head at the time. Maybe it was racist, Bong clearly thought it was, maybe it wasn't. Who knows? I doubt he's even thought about the wider issue

I think (despite you appearing to disagree with me) you're hitting my point on the head, and thus why my second point clearly states that I don't think Rodriguez is a racist or acted with any pre-meditated ideas of being racist. What I was saying is that the wider issue is there when we reflect on the actions, there is a historical association around the gesture that is racist, and to have the narrative as Bong is a liar destroys any attempt to view this in the bigger picture. Perhaps motivation was the wrong word, and association is a better term, but FWIW I think that Rodriguez didn't deserve to be brandished as a racist, he made a foolish gesture (at least) but is now changing the narrative which stops anyone from addressing the original issue.

(I don't think much of the blame for this is on Rodriguez but the press should really do better and have left this in the past)

Postman Pat · Sep 14, 2018

Thunder Bolt said:
He hasn't appeared in court to defend himself yet. I'm not saying he isn't guilty of all three, but the magistrates did only check to see if he had a UK licence.

Well he isn't going to get a chance, he didn't bother to attend court and was found guilty in his absence.

After failing to appear in court at Crawley, magistrates discovered the Cameroon international does not hold a valid UK licence.

The case against him was found to be proved and a new date was set for him to return to court to be disqualified.

https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/16688164.albion-defender-caught-speeding-without-licence/

Beanstalk · Sep 14, 2018

SAC said:
Rubbish. Back in primary school it was a common insult to say that someone stinks, in particular if someone is in your face, and there was no racial motivation. It's a very childish thing to do but I have never heard of it being linked to racism before.

I don't know how old you are but in my experience, which I would presume is comparatively recent (more about my age than yours), and especially when I was in secondary school, saying that Africans smelt was a common place racist insult, especially aimed at kids from Central African countries.

Thunder Bolt · Sep 14, 2018

Postman Pat said:
Well he isn't going to get a chance, he didn't bother to attend court and was found guilty in his absence.

After failing to appear in court at Crawley, magistrates discovered the Cameroon international does not hold a valid UK licence.

The case against him was found to be proved and a new date was set for him to return to court to be disqualified.

https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/16688164.albion-defender-caught-speeding-without-licence/

He may well defend himself when he appears by producing a valid French licence.

I'm not saying he will, but it won't be the first time a guilty sentence in absence has been turned over.

Thunder Bolt · Sep 14, 2018

Beanstalk said:
I don't know how old you are but in my experience, which I would presume is comparatively recent (more about my age than yours), and especially when I was in secondary school, saying that Africans smelt was a common place racist insult, especially aimed at kids from Central African countries.

There is also the factor that Bong grew up in France, and it was a reference to garlic. Race doesn't necessarily apply to skin colour.

The definition of racism is to refer to what a person is, rather than who they are.

Yoda · Sep 14, 2018

SAC said:
Rubbish. Back in primary school it was a common insult to say that someone stinks, in particular if someone is in your face, and there was no racial motivation. It's a very childish thing to do but I have never heard of it being linked to racism before.

You might want to look it up then. It is very common in France, where Bong spent a lot of his time as a child growing up. That would also explain why he took so much offence to it.

Not Andy Naylor · Sep 14, 2018

Thunder Bolt said:
He hasn't appeared in court to defend himself yet. I'm not saying he isn't guilty of all three, but the magistrates did only check to see if he had a UK licence.

My understanding is that the club is unhappy with the reporting of the Bong case. There may be less to this than meets the eye.

Cozzy · Sep 14, 2018

End of the day neither side proved their version or were able to disprove the others version. I do get a feeling of that old saying 'he doth protest too much' and by keep mentioning it rather than let it just die out he is appearing to have the need to defend himself.
A bit of common sense to not keep opening old wounds is needed but guilty or not keep dragging it up is not doing any one any good.

Triggaaar · Sep 14, 2018

GT49er said:
The enquiry didn't clear you. Lack of evidence prevented a conviction.

Indeed.

Perhaps if you hadn't kept your hand over your mouth, lip-reading experts might have been able to clear your name

I very much doubt it.

Triggaaar · Sep 14, 2018

Bozza said:
I think Bong is 100% sure of what he heard. He could still be wrong though.

There's certainly been times I've been sure I've heard one thing but it transpired to be something else.

**** off you tw@.

What?

I said I agree with that :shrug:

Thunder Bolt · Sep 14, 2018

Not Andy Naylor said:
My understanding is that the club is unhappy with the reporting of the Bong case. There may be less to this than meets the eye.

That doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

NooBHA · Sep 14, 2018

Commander said:
I still don't really understand how so many Brighton fans are so sure that they know what he said. I bet Bong isn't 100% sure. In fact I bet even Rodriguez isn't 100% sure now. Memory is a funny thing.

Fact is, nobody will ever know for sure. It looks bad because he put his hand in front of his mouth, but players do that for anything these days, it's hardly conclusive evidence.

Gaetan Bong IS 100% sure he was racially abused by Jay Rodriguez - There is no mileage in him repeating it. The verdict was ''Not Proven'' - He has learned to accept that it couldn't be proven and he has left it at that but at every media opportunity Rodriguez seems desperate to try and convince people that he didn't make a racist comment. He did but it just can't be proved so Rodriguez is clinging to that and twisting the words to suit himself.

He is even now using the fact that his father may or may not have been racially abused - We are now all expected to take HIS word for that and that it actually happened but when Bong makes the claim he is called a liar practically.

I have no time for Rodriguez - He can ''cry wolf'' all he likes now. I for one no longer listen to him.

Commander · Sep 14, 2018

NooBHA said:
He has learned to accept that it couldn't be proven and he has left it at that but at every media opportunity Rodriguez seems desperate to try and convince people that he didn't make a racist comment. He did but it just can't be proved

You don't know that for sure. And just because Bong is 100% of what he heard, that doesn't mean he is necessarily correct. I don't know why people can't understand that.

NooBHA · Sep 14, 2018

Commander said:
You don't know that for sure. And just because Bong is 100% of what he heard, that doesn't mean he is necessarily correct. I don't know why people can't understand that.

He would never have put the Club and his Manager through the process he had to go through if he thought for one minute he could have misheard it - He heard it correct all right - He was racially abused by Jay Rodriguez but like I said. He just couldn't prove it

Thunder Bolt · Sep 14, 2018

Cozzy said:
End of the day neither side proved their version or were able to disprove the others version. I do get a feeling of that old saying 'he doth protest too much' and by keep mentioning it rather than let it just die out he is appearing to have the need to defend himself.
A bit of common sense to not keep opening old wounds is needed but guilty or not keep dragging it up is not doing any one any good.

That is what I think about it, too.

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[Albion] Jay Rodriguez: "The truth came out"

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