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[Politics] Tony Blair doubts Labour can be 'taken back by moderates'
- Thread starter Biscuit
- Start date
Mackenzie
Old Brightonian
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
1.6million have changed their minds to remain according to the latest you.gov figures.
Machiavelli
Well-known member
There is such a thing as the centre. The mistake that the centrists make is that they think it's fixed; it isn't, it moves all over the place. To compare the current political centre today with what was considered as such five years ago, let alone fifty, is daft.
I agree wholeheartedly. You agree with me that there is today a centre. Given that, it's not unreasonable to describe a person who holds those views as centrist, notwithstanding the fact that the centre moves. It may be the case that different people may hold centrist views from year to year, as the centre moves, but to deny that at any point in time, there is no centre is incorrect, imo.
Wardy's twin
Well-known member
- Oct 21, 2014
- 8,434
Politics of the extreme are no good for anyone and that is why people are hoping a centre party is created. Whilst this is also likely to be a remain party I think it will get support from many of the 17 million who previously called for Brexit, people have recognised what a mistake this is. Some good names have been mentioned earlier in this thread.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
There is never any forgiveness in politics. The Lib Dems will never be forgiven for giving up on student fees, and Blair will never be forgiven for the war.
Pavilionaire
Well-known member
- Jul 7, 2003
- 30,566
Er no, I want a party that will commit to a Second Referendum on the Deal we get with the EU, then abide by the result.
I have no problem with a Referendum on something that is known. I can forgive the £350mill for the NHS, they need us more than we need them, etc because that contra's off against Osborne's Emergency Budget scare-mongering rubbish, but what was - and still is - unforgiveable is the lie that there was ever the prospect of a "Deal". Anyone who knows about the EU's 4 Freedoms know they wouldn't compromise those to suit us, ergo No Deal. Had Leave been honest about this Remain would have won by a small margin.
GT49er
Well-known member
Just as I expect quite a few remain voters have come round to accepting Brexit. Now if that new centrist party came out 100% in favour of Brexit, that could make things very interesting. Not only would it take the pro-Brexit voters from the Tory party (you, the old, right wing, xenophobic racist ones!) but would also harvest those millions of Labour voters from the Labour heartlands that were the strongest supporters of Brexit.
Won't happen of course - but it would certainly make the next GE interesting!
GT49er
Well-known member
In that case you perhaps need to include some potential leaders in your wish-list who aren't 100% gung-ho remainers!
spring hall convert
Well-known member
Is there any chance of the Tory party being taken back by the moderates anytime soon? 43 years and counting.
Pavilionaire
Well-known member
- Jul 7, 2003
- 30,566
Johnson? Rees-Mogg? Farage? I haven't got a problem with the fact they're Leavers, I've just got a problem with the fact they're all kvnts.
- Apr 5, 2014
- 23,530
I like Corbyn- a lot. But he is an activist and effective campaigner. In short, a splendid nuisance.
He would be a good opposition leader except that he is unable to be so given the detractors in the party and hideous hysterics of the media.
His brand of socialism, commendable as it is, cannot be introduced without capturing public imagination. That cannot happen without a ready public and all the vehicles of power onside. So, basically, he wouldn't last as leader of the nation. The alternative, it seems, is something far less palatable (for me anyway) a right wing Tory government.
A centre party, with Corbyn biting at the ankles, I like that.
Ernest
Stupid IDIOT
It means someone who has no beliefs , a centrist believes in nothing
father_and_son
Well-known member
Whilst I think there is a popular desire for a centrist party to appear, it would only work as part of a coalition government (if first-past-the-post) or alongside a complete overhaul in our government structure and electoral process. I don't think they could gain more than 1/3 of the votes.
For as long as we maintain a confrontational democracy (where the duty of the opposition is to oppose the government, always presenting an alternative view) we would never get a working majority in government that could do anything (not necessarily a bad thing!).
If the whip system were removed and all MPs voted according to their belief in the proposal being voted on then the "average" MP would be a true centrist... but for as long as the centrists are required to tow their party lines or face retribution, we are destined to lurch right then left then right again and never get an outcome which most voters would agree to be the best solution.
For as long as we maintain a confrontational democracy (where the duty of the opposition is to oppose the government, always presenting an alternative view) we would never get a working majority in government that could do anything (not necessarily a bad thing!).
If the whip system were removed and all MPs voted according to their belief in the proposal being voted on then the "average" MP would be a true centrist... but for as long as the centrists are required to tow their party lines or face retribution, we are destined to lurch right then left then right again and never get an outcome which most voters would agree to be the best solution.
Murray 17
Well-known member
- Jul 6, 2003
- 2,159
I'm with you on this Ernest.
What is a centrist? One party supports privatisation, one nationalisation. One supports increasing taxes to pay for spending and increasing welfare payments, the other the opposite. One broadly supports staying in the EU, the other probably broadly against.
A centrist party would therefore need to support part privatisation, increasing taxes a little, and being part of the EU, but not fully in.
I can't see how there is a halfway between the two main parties. I also think that the Lib Dems are too much to the left anyway, with their policies.
Murray 17
Well-known member
- Jul 6, 2003
- 2,159
I may be wrong, but didn't YouGov predict a comfortable win for Remain in the referendum?
I wouldn't read too much into these type of polls.
52% to 48% win for Remain
Murray 17
Well-known member
- Jul 6, 2003
- 2,159
Thank you [emoji106]