General Election 2017

ManOfSussex · Jun 11, 2017

BensGrandad said:
How did Sir Alec cope as I am sure it was him.

On 23 October 1963, four days after becoming Prime Minister, Home disclaimed his earldom and associated lesser peerages.[n 10] Having been made a knight of the Order of the Thistle in 1962, he was known after stepping down from the Lords as Sir Alec Douglas-Home.[33] The safe Unionist seat of Kinross and West Perthshire was vacant, and Douglas-Home was adopted as his party's candidate. Parliament was due to meet on 24 October after the summer recess, but its return was postponed until 12 November pending the by-election.[122] For twenty days[n 11] Douglas-Home was Prime Minister while a member of neither house of Parliament, a situation without modern precedent.[n 12] He won the by-election with a majority of 9,328; the Liberal candidate was in second place and Labour in third

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alec_Douglas-Home

ManOfSussex · Jun 11, 2017

vegster said:
It just crossed my mind, have any world leaders phoned up Mrs May to congratulate her on her" victory " ? Just wondering if Donald was on the phone or are they all busy ? always remember, success has many fathers but failure is an orphan, and probably an only child.

I saw Trump quoted as being 'surprised' at the result.

btnbelle · Jun 11, 2017

Triggaaar said:
We basically only have 2 parties to choose from, so we didn't get the chance to say how we felt about free trade and the movement of people. Also, the main parties couldn't give away that bargaining position before the negotiations have even started.

Here's the poll showing that most people would accept the free movement of people, if that was necessary for free trade:
http://www.northstandchat.com/showt...u-want-free-movement-of-people&highlight=poll

97% of remainers would
42% of leavers would

So that's 97% of 48% + 43% of 52% = 69% of voters would accept the free movement of people, if that was necessary for free trade.

A poll here is not representative. For National purposes.

The fact is we are going to brexit. We are as a nation better off starting at what most people would think of as a hard brexit. The negotiations with the EU will be a compromise for us all. We all want what is best for the UK whatever side of the argument we are on.

Steve.S · Jun 11, 2017

Triggaaar said:
We basically only have 2 parties to choose from, so we didn't get the chance to say how we felt about free trade and the movement of people. Also, the main parties couldn't give away that bargaining position before the negotiations have even started.

Here's the poll showing that most people would accept the free movement of people, if that was necessary for free trade:
http://www.northstandchat.com/showt...u-want-free-movement-of-people&highlight=poll

97% of remainers would
42% of leavers would

So that's 97% of 48% + 43% of 52% = 69% of voters would accept the free movement of people, if that was necessary for free trade.

Of course that poll is just on NSC, but the result was obvious before I did the poll (which is why I did the poll), and I can guarantee the result would be over 50% if you had a referendum on it.

Both manifestos have stated that they will do away with freedom of movement. So polls mean nothing. No party is going to back track on it

Triggaaar · Jun 11, 2017

btnbelle said:
A poll here is not representative. For National purposes.

But the results are predictable. Virtually no one that voted remain wouldn't be happy with free movement if it meant we kept free trade. And a good number of leavers would also be happy with that trade off. So overall, it's going to be over 50%. That's just blindingly obvious.

The fact is we are going to brexit.

Yes, that's what people voted for.

We are as a nation better off starting at what most people would think of as a hard brexit.

According to whom? That's obviously not a fact, and not even what most people want.

The negotiations with the EU will be a compromise for us all. We all want what is best for the UK whatever side of the argument we are on.

Agreed.

Triggaaar · Jun 11, 2017

Steve.S said:
Both manifestos have stated that they will do away with freedom of movement. So polls mean nothing.

Polls can tell us what the people want, which is being discussed here.

No party is going to back track on it

No party won a majority, and the negotiations haven't even started yet, so we don't know what the options are.

lawros left foot · Jun 11, 2017

BensGrandad said:
How did Sir Alec cope as I am sure it was him. As far as PMQ time is concerned any idiot could make Corbyn look stupid. with his give give giveaways policies with not thinking about how it is going to be paid for. PMQ is not what beat TM.

Shooting down Labours manifesto in the build up to the GE didn't really work though, did it BG. May wouldn't debate with him face to face ,so obviously not any idiot could make Corbyn look stupid,because the standing PM couldn't do it. This doesn't mean I don't think May is an idiot, I just think it's a little harsh on idiots

Is it PotG? · Jun 11, 2017

Triggaaar said:
Polls can tell us what the people want, which is being discussed here.
No party won a majority, and the negotiations haven't even started yet, so we don't know what the options are.

So, as has been discussed before, manifestos ain't worth jack then?

Steve.S · Jun 11, 2017

Triggaaar said:
Polls can tell us what the people want, which is being discussed here.
No party won a majority, and the negotiations haven't even started yet, so we don't know what the options are.

82% vote for both Labour and Tories. Not a lot of traction for the other parties who advocated freedom of movement. Your poll is also a bit out of date. You also have to factor in that a lot of people wouldn't openly say they voted for leave or what was the important issues around that.

Ernest · Jun 11, 2017

BensGrandad said:
How did Sir Alec cope as I am sure it was him. As far as PMQ time is concerned any idiot could make Corbyn look stupid. with his give give give policies with not thinking about how it is going to be paid for. PMQ is not what beat TM.

You are one bitter righty at the moment

Steve.S · Jun 11, 2017

Triggaaar said:
Polls can tell us what the people want, which is being discussed here.
No party won a majority, and the negotiations haven't even started yet, so we don't know what the options are.

Here is a more up to date survey

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.in...trade-europe-keep-uk-survey-a7641541.html?amp

btnbelle · Jun 11, 2017

Triggaaar said:
But the results are predictable. Virtually no one that voted remain wouldn't be happy with free movement if it meant we kept free trade. And a good number of leavers would also be happy with that trade off. So overall, it's going to be over 50%. That's just blindingly obvious.

No Brighton is a town of remainers. I know many on here are fans from round the nation but it does not take into account the nations view as a whole. The election provides the validation for what parliament can negotiate. Social demographics have not been taken into account in the NSC poll. What the country as a whole will be happy with is us all comprising our views and accepting a realistic way forward.

I get you point that people vote for an MP on a number of issues and our exact choice is not immediately available. But it is what MP's have to fight for. No free movement of people is not the same as no-one from the EU is welcome. It will probably end up with some sort of favourable treatment for a limited number.

Yes, that's what people voted for.
According to whom? That's obviously not a fact, and not even what most people want.
It is just what negotiators do. Start with a position and move to a compromise.

Agreed.

I hope the actual result leaves everyone agreeing it is fair for all, as much as possible.

Ernest · Jun 11, 2017

She couldn't crush a grape

[tweet]873654377881497601[/tweet]

btnbelle · Jun 11, 2017

Steve.S said:
Here is a more up to date survey

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.in...trade-europe-keep-uk-survey-a7641541.html?amp

This poll would have been conducted using official protocol.

Machiavelli · Jun 11, 2017

Steve.S said:
Wrong both Labour and Tory manifestos included NO freedom of movement. So it's clearly not what the majority want.

Where did you come up with this? Labour said they'd reduce immigration but, whenever pressed, Corbyn refused to put a figure on it, which hardly sounds like NO freedom of movement.

btnbelle · Jun 11, 2017

ManOfSussex said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alec_Douglas-Home

Thank you for educating us on this.

Eeyore · Jun 11, 2017

BensGrandad said:
How did Sir Alec cope as I am sure it was him. As far as PMQ time is concerned any idiot could make Corbyn look stupid. with his give give give policies with not thinking about how it is going to be paid for. PMQ is not what beat TM.

Douglas-Home was a member of the House of Lords. He renounced and was made PM. He then won a by-election in Scotland.

He was PM without a seat but parliament was in recess. It was extended until after the by-election (less than a month).

I knew my government and political studies would be handy one day.

btnbelle · Jun 11, 2017

Machiavelli said:
Where did you come up with this? Labour said they'd reduce immigration but, whenever pressed, Corbyn refused to put a figure on it, which hardly sounds like NO freedom of movement.

No freedom of movement, was Labour's position for Brexit but they are happy to agree a number of people from the EU can come. You are right to question how many. But they will not be allowed to just enter the UK without adhering to whatever is negotiated.

Triggaaar · Jun 11, 2017

Is it PotG? said:
So, as has been discussed before, manifestos ain't worth jack then?

If a party wins a majority, you can expect them to try and implement their manifesto. Brexit is not something that can be simply implemented because it requires negotiation with the EU. So yes, the Tories may have attempted to negotiate some form of hard Brexit, but that doesn't mean they'd get it. It also doesn't mean that's what the people want.

East Preston Gull · Jun 11, 2017

nicko31 said:
Think we will leave the single market, the key for business is to remain in the customs union with no tariffs, if we don't do this we're screwed

George in the meantime is a large thorn in the government's side at the Standard, he will keep poking the hornets nest

Still can't believe the Tories 23 years to win a majority and f**ked it up...

I politely disagree. We must leave the customs union and the single market. The customs union prevents us from trade deals with the rest of the world.

We have no choice in soft or hard Brexit. Such a thing does not exist. We are leaving and it is up to the EU what they allow us to do.
They need our billions for their budget so this deal will be signed within 6 months.

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