Homophobic Leicester fans

Stat Brother · Aug 21, 2017

It is a shame that the PG rated 'holding hands' & 'to ugly' have to go in the name of progress, but completely understandable.

I have very fond memories of that exchange during our last game at Highfield Road.

I kid thee not, there was a definite pause among the Coventry 'fans' as they listened, thought about it, had a quick discussion, realised the connotation, then went 'football hoolie' barmy at the offence.

Kuipers Supporters Club · Aug 21, 2017

AmexRuislip said:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/we-were-treated-like-animals-11023143

Does anyone know legally where football supporters stand on being searched?

I had assumed children are exempt?

Can you refuse to be searched? OR it not, can you request it takes place in Private?

Triggaaar · Aug 21, 2017

Notters said:
There is some discussion of it here:

http://www.northstandchat.com/showt...rbucks-in-ST-JAMES-street-is-not-in-Kemp-Town

From that thread:
MOG - "Kemp Town consists of Arundel Terrace, Chichester Terrace, Lewes Crescent and Sussex Square. It has given its name to the larger Kemptown region of Brighton.
Therefore St. James's Street is not in Kemp Town but is in Kemptown."
HB&B - "Rubbish!!! Its like Estate agents saying Shirley Street and Goldstone Road are part of The Poets Corner area"

Clear as mud.

SeagullCrow · Aug 21, 2017

cunning fergus said:
I disagree, and there is a very simple way to apply a moral hierarchy plus where crimes should be measured on the order of police priorities, and that is the consequences of crime on the victims.

Police inaction in the 2 examples I highlighted resulted in suicides, drug addiction, unwanted pregnancies, millions of pounds spent (and to be spent) by the state on counselling and thousands of devasted lives of children, who will bare the physical and mental scars of their child abuse for years if not the rest of their lives. I note these days the media refer to them as "survivors" such is the nature of their victimhood. If you think that the consequences of police inaction at football matches regarding homophobic chanting has lead to similar consequences for straight or gay BHA fans then you are being abdsurd.

This thread is full of rage and angst about this issue, which I'm sure is genuine and to a point entire understandable, however like everything in life there is a cost to pay, i.e. the quid pro quo. This is the practical reality of moving this crime up the order of Police priorities, because this is not just going to impact on the police of course but also the CPS, the courts etc.

Pushing what is likely to be hundreds of purpetrators through the criminal justice system wil have consequences. I am not highlighting this because the cost etc. is a reason for not doing it, but if we are having a sensible debate this has to be considered. Personally I would decriminalise non payment of the BBC licence fee as this puts huge burden on the courts but that's me.

Which nicely brings us back round to the hierarchy of priorities.....simply saying "think of the children" is meaningless and just reactionary. This thread is largely full of that invective these days.

I think that you misunderstood the point that I was making. I don't disagree that some offences are far more serious than others, and rightfully deserve to have more resources invested in them by the authorities. My point is simply that many of the offences that you allude to were ignored by the authorities until social movements and pressure groups took up the cause in the 1970s and 1980s, and forced the authorities to take them seriously.

Equally the issue of homophobia within football will continue to be ignored as long as nobody is applying pressure on the FA, the football clubs and the police to take the issue seriously. We'll only start to see things change one people realise that such behaviour has consequences, and that these bodies are willing to take action against them. Just because such 'hate crime' and 'hate incidents' aren't as serious as terrorism, rape or murder doesn't mean that the police or the authorities should turn a blind eye to them either.

Hampden Park · Aug 21, 2017

Don't look at his arse
don't look at his aaaaaarse
he's my husband
don't look at his arse

?

Nixonator · Aug 21, 2017

Enjoyed this whichever group was trying to get it going:

First came race
It's sexuality's turn
21st century
and you still don't learn
(tom hark)

edna krabappel · Aug 21, 2017

Nixonator said:
Enjoyed this whichever group was trying to get it going:

First came race
It's sexuality's turn
21st century
and you still don't learn
(tom hark)

Did they really? That is staggeringly complex (on every level!) for a football chant, no wonder people struggled :lol:

cunning fergus · Aug 21, 2017

edna krabappel said:
A pedant writes: the vast majority of Leicester's significant ethnic Asian community are Hindu or Sikh (around one in five of the city's population). Muslims make up considerably smaller numbers

You have disappointed me here Edna, I am all-in for pedantry, but you need to do your research.

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/n...ion-muslims-living-leicester-rises-184235.amp

You make a fair point on the broader issue regarding Leicester's population, I'm sure everything is going to be absolutely swell.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...a-minority-in-Leicester-Luton-and-Slough.html

Nixonator · Aug 21, 2017

edna krabappel said:
Did they really? That is staggeringly complex (on every level!) for a football chant, no wonder people struggled

Heard c10 rows in front amongst the sarcastic cheers from the abuse, hard to know if I got the copy correct though with the blokes next to me discussing how terrible Ryan is with the residents of neighbouring Derby.

Uncle Spielberg · Aug 21, 2017

Thunder Bolt said:
Something has happened. Up until four years ago, ground regulations didn't mention homophobic abuse, now, because of the hard work, the late Sarah Watts put it, the ground regulations were changed.
You might remember she was given a posthumous award for it.

It is progress, albeit slow.

There was a report on BBC breakfast last week and then we get what happened at Leicester. The stewards stand by and the police turn a blind eye

edna krabappel · Aug 21, 2017

Brighton4Cambridge3 said:
Does anyone know legally where football supporters stand on being searched?

I had assumed children are exempt?

Can you refuse to be searched? OR it not, can you request it takes place in Private?

I can answer that. It's not a legal power you're being searched under, but a condition of entry to a private premises. It is consent-based only. If you refuse to be searched, they cannot lawfully insist on carrying one out, nor use any force on you for that purpose*. They can, however, refuse you entry to the ground as a result of your unwillingness. I'd suggest they're unlikely to agree to carry out a search in private unless there were real extenuating circumstances, because it's going to cause delays for everyone else waiting to get in. Therefore it's a case of agreeing to them patting you down and checking your bags, or no football for you that day.

The police do have various powers to search you, but they don't carry out searches for the purposes of gaining entry to football grounds unless there are very unusual conditions in place. They may search you under, say, the Police & Criminal Evidence Act, the Misuse of Drugs Act and so on, if they have reasonable grounds for suspecting you may be in possession of naughty items, they may lawfully detain you for a search, and use force to carry out the search if reasonably necessary. But they don't do that specifically for people trying to get into football stadiums. That's what the clubs pay stewards for.

sydney · Aug 21, 2017

whitelion said:
The Kemptown village is known as the gay area of Brighton with St James' Street as the focal point.

What a lot if these residents of grim northern towns don't realise is that Brighton attracts their own gay residents as they are more accepted by the city. Therefore the gay population of Brighton are largely not born and bred here. There is no evidence to suggest that Brighton has anymore or less gay people born in the city.

**** me ...finally the voice of reason ....Brighton is a magnet for LGBT folk from all over Europe , it is a self perpetuating gay focal point.....people REALLY need to lighten up here ....it's the 21st century for **** sake.....you can turn a computer on and watch just about whatever kind of fetish material floats yer boat but a load of knuckle draggers at a football game chanting " we can see you holding hands " is a major offence .............massive beat up.

edna krabappel · Aug 21, 2017

cunning fergus said:
You have disappointed me here Edna, I am all-in for pedantry, but you need to do your research.

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/n...ion-muslims-living-leicester-rises-184235.amp

You make a fair point on the broader issue regarding Leicester's population, I'm sure everything is going to be absolutely swell.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...a-minority-in-Leicester-Luton-and-Slough.html

I stand corrected :ohmy:

I knew Leicester had a significant Hindu population so I googled it. Out of date info, I guess :wave:

sydney · Aug 21, 2017

Nixonator said:
Enjoyed this whichever group was trying to get it going:

First came race
It's sexuality's turn
21st century
and you still don't learn
(tom hark)

yess...!!

Thunder Bolt · Aug 21, 2017

Uncle Spielberg said:
There was a report on BBC breakfast last week and then we get what happened at Leicester. The stewards stand by and the police turn a blind eye

Oh well, let's all give up then. Of course there will be setbacks, but this is one of the best threads we've had about homophobic abuse, where more people are realising it isn't banter, but criminal.
It will take time, but eventually it will be as abhorrent as racism.

cunning fergus · Aug 21, 2017

Triggaaar said:
I'm fine with that. But that doesn't mean we should only investigate the worst crimes, that would be daft.

The police that attend our games are paid for by the clubs, right? It doesn't come out of the general police budget. And while the police and stewards are there, I don't imagine it costs any more to throw people out for homophobic chanting. The clubs can also take their names and ban them from coming back without any time wasted in the courts.

If a few of the worst offenders are prosecuted in court, along with others being excluded from games and the (sports) media pointing out that homophobia isn't acceptable, that should do the job. We're not talking about clogging up our justice system here.

All sounds very proportionate on the face of it but the devil will be in the detail as it always is.

I can think some cases will be absolutely clear cut but I have my doubts it will be straightforward on a more practical game by game basis. On a match day vs Palace hoiking dozens of away fans out of the stadium could be more incendiary, the police could be swamped with allegations from BHA fans, as let's face it our shit doesn't stink does it and no BHA fans would ever want to cause trouble.

Post match we are to expect the Police to use time and money to employ lip readers to review footage and work out who sat where and said what because away and home fans always attend games and sit in their designated seat. The clubs issue bans, these are then disputed by some, legal precedents will be set and blah blah blah.

I'm not saying it isn't worth it but proportionality will be key to prevent this going loco and I don't get that sense from the commentariate.

edna krabappel · Aug 21, 2017

sydney said:
**** me ...finally the voice of reason ....Brighton is a magnet for LGBT folk from all over Europe , it is a self perpetuating gay focal point.....people REALLY need to lighten up here ....it's the 21st century for **** sake.....you can turn a computer on and watch just about whatever kind of fetish material floats yer boat but a load of knuckle draggers at a football game chanting " we can see you holding hands " is a major offence .............massive beat up.

How many times? It's not the odd "we can see you..." that's really the problem here, juvenile and tedious though it is: it's people screaming "******s", singing about AIDS and "taking it up the arse" that have caused the issue at the weekend.

If you walked down the street snarling and calling people "******s" you'd rightly expect to be in trouble for it. Come to think of it, if you went up to a work colleague and sniggered "Does your boyfriend know you're here?" at him over the photocopier, you'd probably find yourself having a chat with HR before long. What is it about being in a football stadium that makes some people think they have a free pass to act like a total arse?

sydney · Aug 21, 2017

Thunder Bolt said:
Oh well, let's all give up then. Of course there will be setbacks, but this is one of the best threads we've had about homophobic abuse, where more people are realising it isn't banter, but criminal.
It will take time, but eventually it will be as abhorrent as racism.

isn't English culture based on verbal abuse ......we are at the point now where a muslim "cleric" can provoke and abuse an officer of the law without punishment but we are now expecting people to be charged for using certain language towards certain sections of society.....i really wonder how the irish will get to grips with this concept.....they've been putting up with similar shit for years....over and out

Thunder Bolt · Aug 21, 2017

sydney said:
isn't English culture based on verbal abuse ......we are at the point now where a muslim "cleric" can provoke and abuse an officer of the law without punishment but we are now expecting people to be charged for using certain language towards certain sections of society.....i really wonder how the irish will get to grips with this concept.....they've been putting up with similar shit for years....over and out

English culture based on verbal abuse? You live in a different world to me.

AmexRuislip · Aug 21, 2017

Brighton4Cambridge3 said:
Does anyone know legally where football supporters stand on being searched?

I had assumed children are exempt?

Can you refuse to be searched? OR it not, can you request it takes place in Private?

All I know that children under a certain age cannot be searched, male stewards for male and female stewards etc.....

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