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Player Ratings - Brentford (h)



Acker79

Acker79

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 15, 2008
31,871
Brighton
sussex_guy2k2 said:
Therein lies the point... How often does Stockdale punt the ball aimlessly towards our strikers' heads usually?

The point is he doesn't because usually his distribution is immaculate... And usually it's with a very clear idea to move the ball out to either the full backs or the wide men where there is less risk but where we can play out progressively still.

That his kicking was so direct into the centre forwards last night suggests that Hughton has instructed him to go direct to then allow us to win the second ball from any knock downs/headers... Which also gives a clue as to why he would start Hemed and Zamora together rather than give Wilson a start.

I'm not implying it's my favoured approach, but there is a tactical logic as you're moving the ball forward directly and quickly into the forward players, thereby bypassing the midfield where they had an extra man.

Basically, Stockdale'e WHOLE APPROACH with the ball at his feet was different last night to how it is usually. That suggests there's a reason behind it... So marking him down for poor kicking seems illogical if indeed it fits into the game plan that was so clearly laid down...
Click to expand...

I find that difficult to believe. That, on the back of sitting back and soaking up pressure you would take the tactic of hitting the ball out of play, through to the opposition goalkeeper, or towards opponents, then hope to get the second ball, when your defence and midfield are still deep in your own half just doesn't work for me. If we were breaking fast with Stockdale's clearances and putting pressure on the Brentford players deep in their half, maybe I'd buy it, but we weren't. We booted it to them (or out of play) and sat back and waited.

I don't believe it was a tactical choice.
 




Thunder Bolt

Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Aug 18, 2009
65,519
Beside the seaside, beside the sea
Stockdale 7
Bruno 7
Ridgewell 6
Dunk 7
Goldson 8
Knockaert 9
Kayal 7
Stephens 6
Murphy 8
Zamora 6
Hemed 7

Wilson 6
Crofts 7
Sidwell 6
 


M

Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
16,661
Fiveways
Stockdale 6 -- how different the game could have been if he hadn't produced that early save from Judge (although I don't think Brentford would have been much cop at shutting up shop for 85 minutes). Thought his distribution was poor by his high standards
Bruno 7 -- cracking shot, solid, but not his best game
Goldson 8.5 -- undroppable at present
Dunk 7 -- howlers for 15-20 minutes, then immense
Ridgewell 6 -- not much cop either to start, but got better. Very good in the air.
Knockaert 9 MotM -- I'm beginning to like the January transfer window
Kayal 8 -- how others have marked him down is beyond me; he was back to his best, and was pouncing and extremely rapid over short distances
Stephens 6.5 -- can play better, but did OK
Murphy 8.5 -- his best game for us yet; just as he did early with us, he was brave and ran at defenders, which he hasn't been doing for a while. Mind you, he was helped by their right-back who was suspect defensively.
Zamora 5 -- had a poor game
Hemed 7.5 -- brilliant header, much good link-up play, customary shift

Wilson 6.5 -- some great running, but didn't make the most of a few opportunities
Crofts 7.5 -- great pass, solid and imposing
Sidwell 6.5 -- promising start

CH 9 -- spanked them with his tactics. We had so many good opportunities and situations that we could easily have got six or seven. I'm really looking forward to getting Bong and Rosenoir back.
 


Dolph Ins

Dolph Ins

Well-known member
May 26, 2014
1,525
Mid Sussex
Four of our players have made the whoscored team of the week. Not seen that before. Bruno 8.3, Knockaert 8.7, Murphy9.0 and Hemed 8.1.
 


WhingForPresident

WhingForPresident

.
NSC Patron
Feb 23, 2009
16,214
Marlborough
Bruno, Murphy, Knockaert and Hemed make the WhoScored team of the week:

[tweet]696653074904018945[/tweet]

Edit: Literally in the post above, I am clearly visually impaired.
 












One Teddy Maybank

One Teddy Maybank

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 4, 2006
21,627
Worthing
crabface said:
Playing well for Forest, was a victim of the Sami Hyppia horror show.
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Not really, more of a victim of a lack of effort, inability to tackle, track-back, shoot or pass. Nothing to do with Hyypia.

He wouldn't even make our subs bench now IMO, as he's not better than Sidwell.
 


C

crabface

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2012
1,853
One Teddy Maybank said:
Not really, more of a victim of a lack of effort, inability to tackle, track-back, shoot or pass. Nothing to do with Hyypia.

He wouldn't even make our subs bench now IMO, as he's not better than Sidwell.
Click to expand...

No he wouldnt make our bench, but is a better player than many make out on here and is proving that at Forest.
 






hans kraay fan club

hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
61,345
Chandlers Ford
Stockdale 7 - terrific early save. Silly meltdown for the booking.

Bruno 8 - easy, easy
Goldson 8 - very, very comfortable against high scoring opponents
Dunk 7 - two early mishaps, but positively OUTSTANDING thereafter
Ridgewell 5 - such a limited footballer. Appalling first half, adequate second.

Knockaert 9 - What. A. Signing
King Kayal 7.5 - love this guy
Stephens 7 - effective, mostly doing the ugly stuff
Murphy 8.5 - best display in MONTHS from him. So much better. Someone suggested his poor form was due to us only having one proper winger so they could double up on him. Maybe they were right.

Zamora 5 - Saint Bob's poorest game since returning. Better luck next time.
Hemed 7.5 - beautifully taken goal / poor miss. Excellent and clever hold up play.

Wilson 7.5 - pacey, direct. Defence terrified of him. Should have teed up Sidwell for tap in.
Crofts 7.5 - excellent assist for Murphy's goal. All round good contribution.
Sidwell 6.5 - was he supposed to be playing up FRONT? Not convinced he came on and performed the role he was tasked with. Impressive enthusiasm though.

Hughton 8 - battle won, hands down.
 


Withdean11

Withdean11

Well-known member
Feb 18, 2007
2,776
Brighton/Hyde
Stockdale - 6.9 - One excellent save early on. Not much to do after that
Bruno - 7.2 - decent game, but he's played better.
Goldson - 7.7 - I really like the look of this lad. A real bargain. Growing with every game.
Dunk - 6.5 - Was terrible for the first 20 minutes, could of cost us. Thankfully turned it around and had a good 70 minutes.
Ridgewell - 6.7 - a bit better from him, but you can tell he is a CB.
Knockaert - 8.2 - MOM. Seemed influential in everything we did going forward. Another day would of scored 3.
Stephens - 6.9 - Still not back to his best, but did a good job.
Kayal - 7.7 - Fantastic performance from the King.
Murphy - 8.0 - His best game in a Brighton shirt.
Zamora - 6.4 - Got a knock early on, harsh to score him based on that.
Hemed - 7.1 - Best game for a while, great goal.

Wilson - 6.8 - Some great runs. Played a key part in Murphy's goal the way he ran across the defenders.
Crofts - 6.7 - Great pass for the third.
Sidwell - N/A
 


Acker79

Acker79

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 15, 2008
31,871
Brighton
Average Player Ratings

Highest Rated
Knockaert 8.85 (96mins, 36 votes)

The Rest
Murphy 8.49 (96mins, 36 votes)
Goldson 8.03 (96mins, 36 votes)
Bruno 7.33 (96mins, 36 votes)
Stockdale 7.26 (96mins, 36 votes)
<Kayal 7.26 (80mins, 36 votes)
Dunk 7.21 (96mins, 36 votes)
<Hemed 7.13 (71mins, 36 votes)
>Crofts 6.77 (25mins, 32 votes)
Ridgwell 6.73 (96mins, 36 votes)
>Wilson 6.68 (49mins, 32 votes)
>Sidwell 6.38 (16mins, 30 votes)
Stephens 6.29 (96mins, 36 votes)
<Zamora 5.59 (47mins, 36 votes)


Squad Average: 7.14
 






S

sussex_guy2k2

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2014
3,742
Acker79 said:
I find that difficult to believe. That, on the back of sitting back and soaking up pressure you would take the tactic of hitting the ball out of play, through to the opposition goalkeeper, or towards opponents, then hope to get the second ball, when your defence and midfield are still deep in your own half just doesn't work for me. If we were breaking fast with Stockdale's clearances and putting pressure on the Brentford players deep in their half, maybe I'd buy it, but we weren't. We booted it to them (or out of play) and sat back and waited.

I don't believe it was a tactical choice.
Click to expand...

I wasn't asking whether it worked for you i.e. Whether you liked the tactic, I was asking whether it was possible that his kicking was so markedly different to normal in strategy because he was acting out managerial instructions.

The fact that you've practically described football right out of the Jose Mourinho guide to defensively grinding out results (or the Graham Taylor style direct football from the 80s/90s) only really serves to illustrate my point further and solidify the idea that it was a tactical instruction (one neither you or I particularly like it seems).

Basically, Stockdale is one of the best passers of a football in our team and rarely ever wastes a pass, yet he spent Friday night pumping the ball aimlessly forward or into touch... A change of tactic or a random anomaly that happened to coincide with our total change of tactical approach throughout the side...? I know which side of the coin I'm falling down.
 


dazzer6666

dazzer6666

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Mar 27, 2013
52,496
Burgess Hill
sussex_guy2k2 said:
I wasn't asking whether it worked for you i.e. Whether you liked the tactic, I was asking whether it was possible that his kicking was so markedly different to normal in strategy because he was acting out managerial instructions.

The fact that you've practically described football right out of the Jose Mourinho guide to defensively grinding out results (or the Graham Taylor style direct football from the 80s/90s) only really serves to illustrate my point further and solidify the idea that it was a tactical instruction (one neither you or I particularly like it seems).

Basically, Stockdale is one of the best passers of a football in our team and rarely ever wastes a pass, yet he spent Friday night pumping the ball aimlessly forward or into touch... A change of tactic or a random anomaly that happened to coincide with our total change of tactical approach throughout the side...? I know which side of the coin I'm falling down.
Click to expand...

It did look odd - his kicking style was even different. Usually kicks it low and hard and very direct with that almost unique kicking style he has but he was was hoofing it high like most other keepers instead. Possibly a time-driven decision ? Ball in air for several seconds longer when hoofed.....I dunno, but it was definitely a departure from his usual approach
 


Acker79

Acker79

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 15, 2008
31,871
Brighton
sussex_guy2k2 said:
I wasn't asking whether it worked for you i.e. Whether you liked the tactic, I was asking whether it was possible that his kicking was so markedly different to normal in strategy because he was acting out managerial instructions.

The fact that you've practically described football right out of the Jose Mourinho guide to defensively grinding out results (or the Graham Taylor style direct football from the 80s/90s) only really serves to illustrate my point further and solidify the idea that it was a tactical instruction (one neither you or I particularly like it seems).

Basically, Stockdale is one of the best passers of a football in our team and rarely ever wastes a pass, yet he spent Friday night pumping the ball aimlessly forward or into touch... A change of tactic or a random anomaly that happened to coincide with our total change of tactical approach throughout the side...? I know which side of the coin I'm falling down.
Click to expand...

When I say it doesn't work for me, I don't mean the tactic doesn't work, I mean the explanation that it was tactical doesn't work for me.

Stockdale has had plenty of games where some of his kicking goes astray, he's even had games where a lot of his kicking goes astray (admittedly mostly last season). He is an human being, and makes mistakes occasionally. I don't begrudge him this, but it is to me far more likely he was having one of these off days than Hughton said

"we're gonna sit back, soak up pressure and every time you get the ball Dave, I want you to do one of three things:

1) kick right the way through to their goal keeper. We're just sit back and wait for them to attack again.
2) kick it out of play, we'll sit back and wait for them to come at us again.
3) kick it right to them, and we'll sit back and wait for the attack.

I don't want us to try to close them down, and win the ball deep in their half, just sit back and wait.

I know constantly defending is tiring and risky, but I think it's the way to go, given how many goal-costing defensive mistakes we've made recently, nothing bad can come from it"

Jose Mourinho has/had a great record with a defence who manage to play that way frequently without a young centreback getting himself sent off or conceding penalties with worrying frequency. He can afford to play that way, Hughton has shown himself to be far more cautious and wouldn't risk such a tactic with a team that has made so many defensive errors.
 




S

sussex_guy2k2

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2014
3,742
Acker79 said:
When I say it doesn't work for me, I don't mean the tactic doesn't work, I mean the explanation that it was tactical doesn't work for me.

Stockdale has had plenty of games where some of his kicking goes astray, he's even had games where a lot of his kicking goes astray (admittedly mostly last season). He is an human being, and makes mistakes occasionally. I don't begrudge him this, but it is to me far more likely he was having one of these off days than Hughton said

"we're gonna sit back, soak up pressure and every time you get the ball Dave, I want you to do one of three things:

1) kick right the way through to their goal keeper. We're just sit back and wait for them to attack again.
2) kick it out of play, we'll sit back and wait for them to come at us again.
3) kick it right to them, and we'll sit back and wait for the attack.

I don't want us to try to close them down, and win the ball deep in their half, just sit back and wait.

I know constantly defending is tiring and risky, but I think it's the way to go, given how many goal-costing defensive mistakes we've made recently, nothing bad can come from it"

Jose Mourinho has/had a great record with a defence who manage to play that way frequently without a young centreback getting himself sent off or conceding penalties with worrying frequency. He can afford to play that way, Hughton has shown himself to be far more cautious and wouldn't risk such a tactic with a team that has made so many defensive errors.
Click to expand...

I totally get the point you're trying to make.

I guess two things stand out. 1) maybe Stockdale had a different brief to usual but it didn't go to plan. And 2) I'm not entirely sure Hughton would've sold the tactical plan in quite the manner you have, in which case "soak up pressure and hit quickly on the counter as the ball transitions" sounds much better than "kick it out of play..." Etc.

There are a couple of things about your explanation that I'd bring up again. Ultimately, goalkeepers have been kicking it long for as long as football exists. Usually that ends up in possession being ceded - I suspect Zamora and Hemed started in order to try and gather possession from Stockdale's long kicks where possible.

I also think Hughton was happy to cede possession to Brentford as he knew they had excellent ball players in midfield and outnumbered us there. He knew that they wanted to plan in front of us, that they were blunt up top and that they should try to play out wide, but if we stayed narrow and deep, which we did, then they wouldn't really be able to break through us. I genuinely think in this regard he wasn't bothered about them having possession. Stockdale's kicking, I'd argue, was just another result of that. For example, if you're going to sit deep and soak up pressure, you don't want to be rolling the ball to your deep centre backs and centre halves as it's much harder to play out from the back, because the team is on top of one another and, as proved the case with Brentford, the opposition are going to be right on top of you because they're playing a high line - so your keeper is going to kick it longer much more often to lower the risks of a stupid goal being conceded.

I may be completely wrong, and I opened up the discussion to see what people thought, so thanks for sharing your view.
 


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