Inmates on death row

theboybilly · Jul 25, 2017

studio150 said:
No, just see Bentley and Craig as to why not.

I'm not so sure the Bentley/Craig case is suitable to use as an example in this case. The roles of those boys in this crime was beyond doubt and pure chance saved Craig. But the order of the day was that somebody had to pay the maximum penalty. That execution was not justice it was tantamount to revenge. No amount appeals for clemency whether from the jury, the public or even indeed PC Miles' wife could sway the decision

Kuipers Supporters Club · Jul 25, 2017

pastafarian said:
Michael Olumide Adebolajo
Michael Oluwatobi Adebowale

No dispute whatsoever.
I would gladly pull the switch myself on those two.

They want to die - that would make them martyrs of allah.

They are not having a nice time of it in prison - and besides, they can't suffer when they are dead.

JC Footy Genius · Jul 25, 2017

Kaiser_Soze said:
I'll start off then.

The death penalty should be abolished world wide. It's not a deterrent to crime. If we are focusing on the punishment aspect of criminal sentences, then psychologically the 24 hours prior to execution will be easier to deal with then a lifetime of having your actions on your conscience.

And where does it stop? We've already said death penalty for murder. Manslaughter as well? Illegal drugs can kill so that's drug dealers receiving the death penalty. Death by dangerous driving. Add that to the list as well. What about the developer that signed off the cladding at Grenfell? Corporate manslaughter. Lets add them to the list too. Ah, that corner shop owner that sells several litres of vodka to the bloke next door who dies from alcohol related illness. They can go too.

Agree with much of that but there is the assumption that all murderers have a conscience, which I doubt. I expect some of them enjoy the notoriety and life in prison. Length of 'life' sentences is also an issue plus there are very exceptional cases. I have little doubt that Bin Laden was executed which was entirely justifiable in my view.

Buzzer · Jul 25, 2017

W.C. said:
Is that the documentary where at the end, 15 minutes before he is killed, the documentary maker says his farewells? That stayed with me for days after watching it.

The very one. You can watch it here in 2 parts:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x20z7qm

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x20z786_fourteen-days-in-may-full-documentary-part-2_shortfilms

GOM · Jul 25, 2017

Kaiser_Soze said:
It's not a deterrent to crime. If we are focusing on the punishment aspect of criminal sentences, then psychologically the 24 hours prior to execution will be easier to deal with then a lifetime of having your actions on your conscience.

.

You assume a lifetime of having your actions on your conscience. What if they don't ? If you accidently killed someone you would, as would most inluding me, but I'm sure some who deliberately kill won't.

W.C. · Jul 25, 2017

Buzzer said:
The very one. You can watch it here in 2 parts:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x20z7qm

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x20z786_fourteen-days-in-may-full-documentary-part-2_shortfilms

Thanks. Never forgot watching that and the effect it had.

The Large One · Jul 25, 2017

GOM said:
You assume a lifetime of having your actions on your conscience. What if they don't ? If you accidently killed someone you would, as would most inluding me, but I'm sure some who deliberately kill won't.

If they don't have a conscience about any murders they'd committed, they're almost certainly not going to worry about the notion of any form of capital punishment later on. Which completely destroys the 'deterrent' argument.

spence · Jul 25, 2017

Brighton4Cambridge3 said:
They want to die - that would make them martyrs of allah.

They are not having a nice time of it in prison - and besides, they can't suffer when they are dead.

Quit a few of our prisons are run by muslim gangs. This is a fact

Kuipers Supporters Club · Jul 25, 2017

spence said:
Quit a few of our prisons are run by muslim gangs. This is a fact

These two are not having a good time of it - that's another fact for you

Tricky Dicky · Jul 25, 2017

moggy said:
With two more death row inmates due to die this week, do certain crimes fit the penalty?
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/upcoming-executions#year2017
Looking into Ronald Phillips due to die with lethal injection this Wednesday and having already had his execution stayed on several occasions, think his time has run out. A most haenous of crimes and maybe the penalty is the right one here?

Personally I can't condone the state taking a life - in my book it makes them as bad as the offender. I can absolutely empathise with the sentiment of someone being wronged wanting justice/revenge, whatever you want to call it, and in their shoes I might well feel the same, but from a distance, I just can't sanction it. Throw them in jail forever, by all means, but not the ultimate penalty. Just IMO.

Westdene Seagull · Jul 25, 2017

Tyrone Biggums said:
All the time.

That's from 1994. Science and technology has improved a hell of a lot since then.

Just the fact people have cameras in their phones now means more crimes are caught on camera than ever before.

GT49er said:
Well, yes it is actually. Lee Rigby's killers perhaps? Ian Brady; Roy Whiting; Ian Huntley; Peter Sutcliffe..............and is there any possible doubt that Fred West did it (even though he topped himself before he came to trial)? Modern forensics, DNA, CCTV cameras everywhere, and cameras on mobile phones - yes, there's every chance that some convictions will be 100%.
Not making the same case for America, mind you, where the justice system is obviously not fit for purpose; I mean, O.J.Simpson not guilty, ffs!

It's very rare to have the evidence that the Lee Rigby case had.

Technology and science is only as good as the people using it. By their very nature humans make mistakes and therefore there's always the chance of evidence being contaminated, mis-interpreted. That's before we even come on to someone purposely changing evidence ( think it doesn't happen ? A word ..... Hillsborough ). You can't even be sure someone is 100% guilty when they admit a crime - plenty of cases of people with mental illness admitting to crimes they didn't commit.

So, it is rarely 100% guaranteed correct and so it's a no from me on the death penalty. Just one single innocent person put to death is one too many.

GOM · Jul 25, 2017

The Large One said:
If they don't have a conscience about any murders they'd committed, they're almost certainly not going to worry about the notion of any form of capital punishment later on. Which completely destroys the 'deterrent' argument.

Agreed, so let's stop thinking of it as a deterrent, prison sentences aren't a deterrent for most crimes judging by the amount of re-offending.

Let's start thinking of it as punishment.

BensGrandad · Jul 25, 2017

Brighton4Cambridge3 said:
This in spades.

As part of my job, I have met many many people who are in prison for life, and trust me, when it finally hits them they aren't leaving, it's a punishment of living with eternal suffering.

Also - of all the people I met, I don't think any would have stopped during the crime if it could have resulted in the death penalty.

Obviously I dont know having never had dealings with these people but I would have thought that they would have just adjusted their minds to the fact of having a new way of life and it becoming the norm and accepted it as such

GOM · Jul 25, 2017

Brighton4Cambridge3 said:
This in spades.

As part of my job, I have met many many people who are in prison for life, and trust me, when it finally hits them they aren't leaving, it's a punishment of living with eternal suffering.

I didn't think that there were many people in UK prisons that were actually in for life (real life), not counting life sentences of course. Would be interested in the numbers, again not counting places like Belmarsh.

BensGrandad · Jul 25, 2017

I believe that life should mean that they are not considered for release until they reach 80 years of age irrespective of the age at conviction. A great 80th birthdays present.

Seagull kimchi · Jul 25, 2017

Those who undeniably commit horrific crimes - your Brady, West, Sutcliffe types should be in a dungeon. No outside contact, no window. Basic food and water, no comforts beyond a mattress and a bucket to shit in.

BensGrandad · Jul 25, 2017

I did a relief at a pub in Croydon some years ago and was told by customers and the man himself that he had served 2 life sentences 1 in Barlinnie and 1 in Dartmoor having been released from the first he committed a similar crime and received a 2nd. He was in his 60s and was on licence for the 2nd at the time.

tip top · Jul 25, 2017

BensGrandad said:
I did a relief at a pub in Croydon some years ago and was told by customers and the man himself that he had served 2 life sentences 1 in Barlinnie and 1 in Dartmoor having been released from the first he committed a similar crime and received a 2nd. He was in his 60s and was on licence for the 2nd at the time.

Living in Croydon is a life sentence in itself :moo:

whitelion · Jul 25, 2017

BensGrandad said:
I did a relief at a pub in Croydon some years ago and was told by customers and the man himself that he had served 2 life sentences 1 in Barlinnie and 1 in Dartmoor having been released from the first he committed a similar crime and received a 2nd. He was in his 60s and was on licence for the 2nd at the time.

Do you mean the licensee was the lifer x2?

If that's how I read it he would never have been granted a license or to have anything to do with a public house as deemed by a probation officer.

Sussexscots · Jul 25, 2017

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Perfect reply.

I have always said that if anyone killed my son (or indeed vandalised my car, my threshold is low) I would happily kill them with my bare hands, and would seek to do so, but society and civilization is better than that and I would expect the state to stop me (by locking the *******s up).

Yes, this is my view. The function of state is dispassion and in my view, the Death Penalty has no place in a civilised society.

The likes of Stefan Kiszko, the Guildford Four, Stephen Downing would all have been hanged but were all subsequently exonerated. The execution of just one innocent person is one too many.

The attached is a long and difficult watch and was made thirty years ago. It remains for me a damning indictment of capital punishment as it is applied in the USA, how it is disproportionately applied to people that can't afford a hot shot legal team and perhaps most chillingly, how the mechanics of execution start to overwhelm the common humanity of the people involved in its application.

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