Or maybe educated people benefit from being in the EU and so are voting to support their cosy lifestyles while the less educated have seen their living standard threatened by the EU ?
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[Politics] Brexit
- Thread starter KingstonSeagull
- Start date
Or maybe educated people benefit from being in the EU and so are voting to support their cosy lifestyles while the less educated have seen their living standard threatened by the EU ?
I'd be interested in you supplying the data to support that claim - I know plenty of people that are well traveled within Europe and voted leave ( including me ). The most obvious example my cousin who actually worked for the EU in Brussels and Strasbourg as a translator for five years. I won't hold my breath for the proof as you're well known for making up 'facts'.
vegster
Sanity Clause
- May 5, 2008
- 27,892
This is guaranteed, May can't state any position without upsetting one wing of her party or the other. Expect the usual mantras such as " The Best Deal for the UK " whatever that means and positive intentions lots of going forward together and " Shared Values ". Plus the old " The country is uniting together " despite the opposite clearly being the case, and so we limp on in the hope that something turns up.
ManOfSussex
We wunt be druv
So all the lorry parks in Kent will all be ready off the M20, the customs infrastructure, including the new Customs Declaration Service system in place with no hitches or delays and the additional staff needed by HMRC and The UKBA will be in place too, the M20 upgraded, the A2 duelled and the much needed construction of the Lower Thames Crossing under way by March of next year. That's good to know, I must have missed it, thanks for clearing that up.
ManOfSussex
We wunt be druv
As the strong and stable leader of the free trade world and self confessed bloody difficult woman, I think she's going to emphasise the importance of the 'security partnership' element of our 'deep and special' partnership and how, despite us leaving The EU, The EU is being saved from 150,000 Russian Infantry soldiers running through the wheat fields all the way to Brussels by 800 or so red, white and blue British soldiers in Estonia, so they better give us the easiest free trade deal in history and quickly.
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Garry Nelson's teacher
Well-known member
Interesting speculation. If, as is claimed, leaving will remove the 'excess' cheap labour form the EU that has been depressing wage levels then the poor (as in poorly paid) might well benefit, and to be honest I think that this was part of the leavers' 'sales pitch' . However against this you'd need to look at the differential regional impact of Brexit which looks like it will hit poorer regions badly plus the likely impact on the public finances of lower GPD growth which of course will hit the poor.
My own view is that we'll all be worse off (i.e. as a nation) but that the poor will be especially worse off which will be a sad irony given the voting pattern in the referendum. If so I hope they will see it as a price worth paying but I fear that they won't.
Apologies for being so bloody miserable on a sunny day.
Actually, properly understanding the implications of IN or OUT required a huge amount of research, insight and understanding. A university education would probably have helped in that analysis. But it's clear, as each day passes, that very few people understand the real implications of our decision - least of all the likes of Boris, Fox, Gove, and May. The civil servants are desperately trying to come up with solutions to all the myriad problems that our so-called "leaders" have created. But all they get in return is a kicking from the morons in DEXEU.
A fair argument. My post was doing what all people are doing with the stats - speculating. My speculation is no more right than anyone elses. The problem being it's possible to make stats fit any argument. One reason why I believe that all statements along the lines of "X type of person in society is more likely to have voted leave/remain because they *insert some attribute*" should be taken with a barrel of salt.
There is absolutely ZERO evidence that EU immigration has depressed wage levels. As you say, this was the sales pitch. And the Government's own analysis shows the poorer regions, which voted Leave, will be worse off as a result of Brexit. The only silver lining in this whole sorry episode is that at least the impact of the stupidity of their decision will fall mainly on Brexiteers. London, the South East and the South West will be relatively unaffected. But obviously this will mean the North-South divide will be exacerbated, we will become a more divided society, and the gap between rich and poor will increase further. Well done those who voted Leave!
Baldseagull
Well-known member
BigGully supplied the link https://www.theguardian.com/news/da...nd-demographics-where-the-brexit-vote-was-won
He asked why it was that to bring up the numbers of foreign born in relation to the result in an area was questionable, but it was ok to for remainers to say leavers were thick. I just pointed out that there is a strong correlation to one and only a weak one with the other, the page he linked to shows that.
You simplified the argument and said that was because educated people were out of touch with the uneducated, I did not disagree, I am sure the most well educated have no idea of what it is like to be uneducated and outcompeted for jobs picking fruit. But they were also more likely to understood the implications of leaving, be able to see Farage in front of that poster and not be taken in, know that whilst immigration may be uncomfortably high, that there are clearly jobs here for those people, and vital ones too. Most importantly, they understood that the UK government, this and previous ones, is the department that has to shoulder the blame for most of the problems that Leave wanted to attribute to the EU.
Who voted leave thinking, I can't wait to get out of the customs union?
Who voted leave thinking, that EMA is a nightmare, got to get out of that?
No one, but many voted leave thinking they were stopping Islamic immigration, many voted leave thinking the NHS would be better funded.
You don't disagree with the correlation, but you say it is nothing to do with the ability of educated people to think beyond what they were being told, so tell me this. Do you think Leave would have won if they had said, this will do nothing to stop Islamic immigration?
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,300
isnt this reflective of the wider population? no point making this about internal Tory party splits, Labour are split, and the country was split too. May cant go forward without one side or the other crying foul, and she certainly doesnt have leadership qualities to drive a decisive path. i wonder though what sort of exit would be acceptable for remainers, so that there is some sort of compromise to work with.
Labour's split is just Corbyn vs Everybody Else, isn't it? The problem is Saint Jeremy can't be questioned for fear of angering the membership...
Baldseagull
Well-known member
We all benefit from being in the EU. I did not achieve high qualifications, my further education was a Bricklaying apprenticeship, my wages were hit when the accession countries gained access. On the other hand, I have worked in Italy, Spain, France and Germany and enjoyed the freedom to do so.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,300
of course some did. not all leavers cared about immigration, or took NHS funding as a promise. leaving custom union to allow freer trade would have been a primary purpose for hundreds of thousands of voters. another point earlier was about the demographics, old and uneducated voted leave, young and educated voted to remain is ths simplistic view. but go look at the actual numbers, its more complex than that. third of leavers were graduates, similar number were under 35. people need to get out of these simple caricatures of who leaver (or remain) voters are, because theres millions of them that dont fit.
Michel Barnier forced to apologise over 'inappropriate' Brexit punishment clause
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook
#clownstotheleftofme
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook
#clownstotheleftofme
- Jul 10, 2003
- 25,796
From your Daily Telegraph link "Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, had on Friday defended the clause as “perfectly normal” but was forced to redraft the language of the clause". Not quite what the headline says but anyway
Hallelujah, start rejoicing ! He has to redraft the language of the Brexit punishment clause, the sunny uplands are on their way
And, after all this time, you still think it's a left/right thing
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beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,300
From your Daily Telegraph link "Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, had on Friday defended the clause as “perfectly normal” but was forced to redraft the language of the clause"
Hallelujah, start rejoicing ! He has to redraft the language of the Brexit punishment clause, the sunny uplands are on their way
issue overlooked is that Barnier is no position to make threats or apply punishment. he is a civil servent representing 27 nations, anything he does has to be signed off by them. many of them did not care for the tone or implications, with the idea punishment could be decided on and applied outside established EU rules making them uncomfortable.
ManOfSussex
We wunt be druv
Yes, where is JC Footy Genius this morning?
EU backs down in Brexit transition row by softening ‘punishment powers’ - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...se-from-brexit-transition-proposals-2v9zjbn52
Strange, you read The Times, a far better newspaper, which in it's report today, which you've read, does not mention the word 'apology' once.
Yet you go for the sensationalised Telegraph article and headline, which even outdoes the likes of The Express?
Still, I suppose it's better than one paragraph, pretty colours and pictures etc on The Guido Fawkes blog site you like.
Challenged or asking why, same difference, I countered that The Guardian cited it as a likely reason, be honest you and the your mates thought there was a whiff of racism.
You love the uneducated stat though, it's snobbery at its worst, you seem to forget that less qualified doesn't necessarily mean less successful, or that it makes them thickos, your favourite jibe, yeah nice work.
Yes, where is JC Footy Genius this morning?
EU backs down in Brexit transition row by softening ‘punishment powers’ - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...se-from-brexit-transition-proposals-2v9zjbn52
Strange, you read The Times, a far better newspaper, which in it's report today, which you've read, does not mention the word 'apology' once.
Yet you go for the sensationalised Telegraph article and headline, which even outdoes the likes of The Express?
Still, I suppose it's better than one paragraph, pretty colours and pictures etc on The Guido Fawkes blog site you like.
Here is Guido's latest for you... perhaps more suited to the nasty Labour RACISTS thread:
https://order-order.com/2018/02/16/...paign-star-sent-n-word-jew-and-hitler-tweets/